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TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
NOVEMBER 1962
NEHBREN FARTIOIPATING: vernon Bradford, TAMPA TRIBUNE: Robert H.
0818583, ORLANDO SENTIREL~8TAR3 Tom Dunn, VTVT; Barbers Frye,
UNITED PRESS INTRRRATIONAL; David Greteoh, Capitol News Service;
Jerry Mock. JOHN B. PEER! PAPERS; Prank Noel, ASSOCIAIRD PRESS:
Frank Pepper, HOTV; George Prentice, FLORIDA BROADCAST REVS;
Steve Prentice. FLORIDA BROADCAST REVS; Don Showerman, ASSOCIATED
PRESS; Rey Starr, WFEB; Stan Terilton FLOEIDA EOSLH3A8T NEWS;
Georar Thurnton, NFtA-HJxml Rick Tuttle, MIAMI 35R&LD~ST.
PEIERSBURG TIMES 3887308: Ann Neldron. 8T. PETERSEUFG TIRES-
RIM-II IEKRALD SERVICE; Martin Veldron, 8T. PBIERSBURG TIMES-
:IAHI HERALD SERVICE; Paul Hills. ASSOCIATED PRESS: Bill Watkins,
OTV
SEVERAL: Good morning, Governor.
GOVERNOR: Have you ever known the legislators to work on weekends?
GOVERNOR: Yes, sir.
DELANEY: When?
GOVERNOR: It depends on which end you think is the weakest.
(laughter)
TUTTLB: We get an extra five minutes for that.
STARR: Governor, what caused you to change your mind. You've told
us repeatedly that it reapportionment didn't pass you would not
cell e special session. What caused this?
GOVRRROR: I've never made up my mind. I don't think I ever told
you firmly that. In fact I am quite confident that I never have,
because I have the invariable practice not to make decisions on
hypothetical situations.
TUTTLE: Are you going to preeent your plan -- the one that was
presented last time changed around last time?
GOVERNOR: I feel that the plan that I pretented then was
considerably better than the one that was submitted to the
electorate, but no decision has been made as to exactly what will
be eubmitted for consideration at this time.
FRYE: Are you going to address the Legislature and give them a
plan. or recommend one, when they open tomorrow?
GOVERNOR: I don't know.
WALDRCN: Well, will you address the Legislature?
GOVERNOR: I don't know that, really.
HALDRON: Governor, why did you not in such haste?
GOVERNOR: Because of the time limitation. I don't know if you
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GOVEHNOR: I am quite confident that they would prefer to have us
solve this by constitutional amendment. Now whether or not they
would they might -- accept a statute as a temporary expedient, I
don't know.
WALDRON: Would you put in any requirement before you sign a
statute that this must be submitted to the people at some future
time?
GOVERNOR: Hell, again, I have conveyed to you my feeling that this
must be resolved by the people, but I'd rather not be pinned down
as to the specifics of the thing at the moment.
FRYE: Tell me, in the field of conjecture, it is reasonable to
assume that what you will recommend to the Legislature will be
something similar to what you recommended before, isnt it?
GOVERNOR: Right.
TUTTLE: Don't you also face the possibility of a hardening of the
rural attitude, particularly in the Senate's attitude of a big change
in the Senate's apportionment?
GOVERNOR: Yes.
FRYE: what do you think the vote of the people indicated they
want? What plan, the very least they want?
GOVERNOR: If I had the answer to that one, we could dispense with
this next election. I think the expression or the people the other
day was a negative expression. I think they said what they didn't
want. It was sort or like the court, I don't think they have yet
said what they do want. The court avoids that and I think the
people so far have.
SHOWERMAN: Do you think the news media or the state played a part
in killing this plan?
GOVERNOR: I don't think there is any question about it, a very
significant part.
THURSTON: Governor, do I understand correctly that in your opinion,
it normal legislative-processes between now and next March or April,
whenever the '63 Legislature convenes, that the federal court will
take no extraordinary measures to establish a Legislature which can
meet then? what I am supposing is that no legislative action in
the meantime has created a new apportionment - what about the '63
session?
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GOVERNOR: The closing language of the court's opinion or the
gagerlocutory order. or perhaps the order itself_ was to the effect
that it the Legislature does not act. or it action was not taken,
that the court would consider further action itself and was retain-
ing Jurisdiction for that purpose. I conclude from this that it we
don't act they will.
PHYS: Well, with that threat hanging over them than, you do think
the Legislature will do something -- the political impasse might
come at the polls rather than the session?
GOVERNOR: Hell, it could come in the session, because we are new
under the burden of a three-fourths vote and there are a lot of
people in the Legislature who will say; I can't vote this way,
and then go home. "This may be defeated at the polls, but that is
better than having me defeated at the polls. And if this reaction
has very general acceptance. why we could have a political impasse
in the Legislature.
PRYB: There is this time element that at least they have got two
years to be defeated?
GOVERNOR: ight. My View on this is that difficult as all the
problems and remote at the moment as might seem to be the prospects
for satisfactory conclusion I have the duty to do the best I can --
the utmost that I can to solve it. It I have done that and failed.
that's another matter.
VALDRON: Has your reaction been that the new Legislature will pro-
bably be more reasonable than the old one?
GOVERNOR: Well, I have found them all reasonable -- all Legislatures
(laughter)
"ALDRON: Very helpful, I as sure.
ERIE: have you tried to analyze the new Legislature to see what the
reaction is?
GOVERNOR: No I really haven't. It should be a better Legislature
because there are more Democrats in it.
9838: You have always said before any other special session that
yon wouldn't call it unless you had sons kind of assurances of
success. Well. you havent had those assurance with this sc.czon?
-12-
GOVERNOR: no. nor time to receive them -- that's true.
FREE: So you are Juat going into it blind?
GOVERNOR: Nell, not quite that way. I would not like to say that.
I am going into it because 1 feel that I must go into it.
BRADFORD: Governor, you mentioned compacting the time schedule. Do
you mean, for instance, perhaps calling a special election for new
membero, setting that before the actual election on the amendment?
GOVERNOR: well, this has occurred to us. However, I don't think
emusmunu.
SEOHEEMAN: Can they both be done on the same day?
GOVERNOR: Two primaries?
SHOHERHAN: Could you vote in the amendment and vote in the new
legislators on the same day?
GOVERNOR: I.dcn't think so. I don't think there would be any
authority for holding those elections.
BRADFORD: Well, in what direction are you looking toward this
compaction?
GOVERNOR: Well, instead of having elections three weeks apart, you
might have then 20 days apart. I mean we are exhausting the
statutory search to determine what kind of compaction.
FREE: Could the Legislature pass a law changing that 90 dayc?
GOVERNOR: That in in the Constitution and it would take 90 days to
peas the law. (laughter)
DELANEY: Governor, there is not enough time for allowing three weeks
between elections and call two primaries and a.general election?
GOVERNOR: Nell, there is if we finish by Monday.
OELANEY: For three weeks between each or two primarien and the
general election?
GOVERNOR: If we finish by Monday. There are 15% daya from yesterday,
and it taken 90 days plus #9 daye on this basie we are talking about,
and 1&9 from 15 leavee rive, so 1 any we could get under the wire.
DELANEY: Realistically, do you expect anything to be accomplished
by thin Legislature before Monday?
GOVERNOR: No .
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DBLANEY: And your calling them in tomorrow, actually is simply to
have them on the scene so they can get through with their mechanical
organization?
GOVERNOR: So we can move with as much speed as possible, and our
best evaluation is that they have until next Friday.
BRIE: After that they might as well go home and forget it?
TUTTLE: No, it would be statutory after that, would it not?
GOVERNOR: Well, there are prospects after that, or course, for a
statutory correction, if that course were decided upon.
ANN WALDRON: what was it you said about the wives? I missed that.
GOVERNOR: There were asking me if I had had any reaction from the
legislators, and I said not much, but had had some from their wives.
They don't want their prospective vactions after the campaigning
that they have Just gone through interrupted. And I don't blame
them. I have had some experiences similar to that.
FREE: You had some with your own wife. You had some with me
yesterday. (laughter)
TUTTLE: We are running out or time. Any more questions? Thank
you, Governor.
GOVERNOR: Thank you.
realize it, but we began with a pencil to work on the practical
problems, and if I called a session yesterday, to being Friday,
and if that session met tomorrow and completed its labors Monday,
let's say -- which it couldnt do, but it it did -- and had a
new proposal and then it was set down for election or rejection by
the peeple 90 days thereafter, which is the earliest time that could
be -- there would then be #9 days left to hold two primary elections
and a general election prior to the convening of the 1963 Legislature.
1 think that 1+9 days would expire nonnay, April 1, 1963, imdictely
prior to the convening on April 2. Now there are maybe ways we can
compact some or those dates so that overlapping -- sequential
things can, to a degree, overlap, but subject only to that time
compaction, that's the schedule we work under. I wanted to give
the Legislature as much time as possible, it it wishes to do a
difficult Job, to do it.
DRLANEY: well, do you think the members will be able to get here,
Governor, have you heard from enough of them to feel sure they'll
be on hand.
OOVBNOR: No, I hsvsn't.
DELANBY: Any report from any who might have gone out or town
immediately after election for vacations?
GOVERNOR: We know of some that are in Chicago, but they plan to
be back by Monday. I envinion -- or course this is purely the
legislature's business ~- but I envision.that the Legislature will
be involved with the business of organisation largely tomorrow.
They have got new presiding officers to select: they have to be
sworn in; and normally the business or getting organised. I would
hepe that, having organised on Friday, they would spend the
weekend making up their minds what was necessary to be done. and
then at an early date next week, do it.
DUNN: Do you have in your own mind the deadline on how long the
session could last before it would be impossible to get the votes
completed by convening.
'3-
OOVERROR: Hell, without being positive. I think that next PrideyQ~
Friday a week would be the lsst date.
DUNN: What it Friday canes and goes and the proposal has still not
been passed?
GOVERUOR: The haying ringer writeo. and having writ, moves on.
That in about all I can tell you.
TOITLB: You could set statutory apportionment, could you not?
OOVEHhOR: he I suggested to the Legislaturelat the beginning of
the loot session. this could have been done and many of then feel
that it should have been done. But there are certain additional
considerationo now which did not enter into that picture vo
circumstanceo have changed. I think it is still legally possible.
PBYE: Hill you recommend that approach?
GOVERNOR: I haven't settled on o tire program to present to the
Legislature.
FRY!
If that was done. cavernor. that wonld Just carry over
until April and then they would come out with cone sort or a plan
to present to the people?
GOVERNOR: As I understood end interpreted the court decision to
the Legislature before, the action or the court was to hold the
Constitutional provinione null and void. and therefore. there
are no constitutional limitations on what the Legislature can do,
implicit st least in those sections or the constitution. Therefore.
they can do this thing on a permanent basin it they want to. Or
they can do it to carry them over until through this biennium and
provide by constitutional amendment to be adopted in 1965 another
plan. These are all possible linen or procedure.
WALDBO": Governor, didn't the court's ruling nay "propopeetively
null and void?
GOVERNOR: It did.
WALDD: And that it would not be null and void until they had
entered a final decree in any event?
GOVERNOR: Well. then it would be not nunc pro tune, I think.
wALDRN: One or those status quo type things.
-u.
TUTTLE: This time table you mentioned is based on calling a special
election to supplant the general election where you would adopt a
constitutional amendment or vote on a constitutional amendment?
GOVERHOR: The plan which I outlined a moment ago would envision
passage of a reapportionment proposal by a 3/h majority or each
house, calling for an emergency election, at which time the
constitutional proposal would, hopefully, be elected, pursuant to
which there would be the election of the additional members called
for.
THUHSTON: Do you regard it as mandatory that the '53 Legislature
be constituted under whatever new arrangement is decided upon?
GOVERNOR: having only as a guide the language of the'oourt'a
decision, I read it and understand that we must submit a newly
apportioned legislature for the convention of the '63 session.
waLDROH: Governor, do you have any real hope or getting 3/4 vote
or the Legislature for any plan?
GOVERNOR: Nobody knows. or course, we have got new legislators
with whom I have not talked at all. I proceed from the standpoint
that the governor has the responsibility for doing the very best
that he can to carry out this burden that is imposed upon him by
the Constitution. I am going to do the best that I can. If I
have exhausted every resource available to me and can't do it, I
am sorry. But I am going to do the best that I can.
BRADFORD: Governor. do you feel that your plan would have had a
better opportunity of being approved by the people than the one
that was rejected. 1 know you feel it was better.
GOVERNOR: Well, of course, in the election I feel that the news
media were tremendously effective. when we announced that plan
whenever it was announced -- with one possible exception, all the
major newspapers did say that it was a good plan. They indicated
that they would support it. I would assume, therefore, that it
would have had a much better chance of passage than.the one that
was offered. This is in the reslnof speculation -- its water over
the dam -- I don't know. I think it would have.
.5-
THURSTON: Also, in the realm of speculation have you formulated
in your own mind any particular point in the plan that caused it
to be reJeoted?
GOVERNOR: I think, of course, the point of attack, by and large, was
the Senate apportionment formula. This is where most of the fire
was focused.
FHYE: Do you have any hope of getting a better Senate plan?
GOVERNOR: Yes. ma'am.
ERIE: Or will you work on the House?
GOVERNOR: Yes. ma'em.
FRYE: Both?
GOVERNOR: Yes. ma'em.
TOTTLE: You are going to face that 67-Senator battle again, are
you not? Senator Carraway seemed to like that plan prior to
election.
GOVERNOR: It seems to me that one thing that is clear from this
election, is that 67 senators: 46, H7, #8. 9, or 57 senators
would not be received with fever.
FRYE: Do you think ks would?
GOVERNOR: I don't know whether the situation has changed from
then until now. It's quite conceivable to me that the voters,
having rejected this plan. will demand something significantly
different. This is in the realm of speculation and, frankly, we
were so busy yesterday working on the mechanics, reaching a decision
that this must be done, and then working on the mechanics of doing
it, that I haVen't had too much chance to make a decision as to
precisely what ought to be done.
PRYE: Do you plan to meet with the legislative loaders during
the weekend to try to work out some compromise?
GOVERNOR: well, I want to meet with all the legislators that have
ideas about this and to convey to then our own thoughts, which I
expect to be Jelled by that time.
ERIE: Do you have as much hope of e successful plan this time as
you did when they met before?
-o-
GOVERNOR: Yes, ma'am. I am hopeful that the Legislature will be
a little bit more receiptive to such suggestions as I have to
make on the basis or the fact that the evidence indicates that if
they had followed those suggestions before. the possibilities of
success would have been substantially greater. A number of them
have indicated in conversations that: Well. we wish we had
listened to you then." And whether this is broad-spread or not.
I don't know. but there are a number of significant instances or
where this has occurred over yesterday.
DELANEY: Governor, do you believe that the size of the House--
the 135 House members -. a feeling that this was too large a Reuse,
was a factor in rejecting this Tuesday?
GOVERNOR: 1 think in North and Central Florida, or in the smaller
counties generally, this was a factor which cooled enthusiasm.
I think that we had a lot or antiovotes in many of those counties
that were on the basis or disapproving the site or the-Rouse.
DELANEY: Well, in this case. should you come back with a plan
comparable to the one yOu came up with in August, would it be as
large a House as the lbs?
GOVERNOR: You have hit on a very critical factor which is this:
Any plan with which you come up that might satisfy the voters of
Pinellas and hillsborough. and Dads and Broward and the other
counties that reJected this by overwhelming margins, might be or
such a nature as to excite the antagonism of the other counties
or the state. We may he at a political impasse. You know it's
axiomatic that people will come out and vote against something
much more quickly than they will come our and vote for something.
And I can conceive of a plan being developed which would bring the
people of certain areas or Florida out to vote vigorously against
it, even though it might now meet the approval of the populous
areas, that this time defeated it. And we may be in a situation
where people are liking to vote "not" more than "yes". A situation
where we can't get a plan that will secure the approval of a majority
of the people or Florida.
TUTTLE: In other words the same number in the populous areas
-which came out to vote against it would not come out to vote for it?
-7.
GOVERNOR: Right. For an illustration -- and I really haven't
analyzed it but in Pinellss County} where there was a 5 to 1 against
it, 90 thousand people voted. In Duval County, with 5 to 1 for it,
30 thousand people voted. Well, now suppose we came out with a
formula that made Duval no! but pleased Pinellas -- would 30 thousand
cone out in Pinellas and 90 thcusmd in Duval. Now, I realise that
Pinellas has a peculiar situation with its two party frstricide there,
which excites interest which is not excited in Duval. But I do think,
nevertheless, that my quick review or what I saw of the election
returns indicated that those who were in favor or it by l: and 5 to 1
margins, didn't come out in sufficient numbers, but those who were
against it by 5 to 1 margins, came out in very large masters.
3823: Could you set then out at all for a special election in big
enough numbers?
common: I don't know.
an: me is the big thing, isn't it?
GOVERNOR: I don't know.
FRIB: Well, you don't really have a whole lot 01 nape right now,
do you from the way you talk? You dont sound your usual optimistic
self.
GOVBRHOR: I recognise that there are a great many problems, but I
recognise the possibility which is that we may have worked ourselves
into a political inpssse.
wmou: well, it we have, Governor, what do you think the courts
would do? That they would take some kind of action?
amnion: They will reapportion in my Judgment.
m: The court would?
GOVEEROR: I think it is clear from.their opinion that they will.
Harmon: Well, is the fact that you are calling this session before
the Canvassing Board meets to certify the election results have any
significance?
GOVERNOR: Speed.
WALDRON: I mean any significance other than that?
GOVERNOR: None that I know 01'.
WALDROH: Such as the fact that perhaps the court would not take
over the case until --
8
GOVERNOR: Oh, no. I don't think the court would act today or
tomorrow or Monday or Tuesday, at all. I certainly think they would
give us time for orderly consideration of the issues. But it
merely reflects my desire to give the Legislature the maximum
amount or time to do whatever it can and will do on this problem.
FREE: If you do address the Legislature, is it more likely that
that would come Monday instead or Friday?
GOVERNOR: I haven't even thought about it. I have to talk with
their leaders. You know I have to be invited, and I have to talk
with their leaders.
FREE: But you can ask for an invitation.
comes: I wouldn't be so bold. (laughter)
FRYE: You might crash the meeting (laughter)
SHOWERHAN: Governor. is it your impression that the Legislature
wouldn't pass any plan unless it was tied in with an amendment -
a Constitutional amendment?
GOVERNOR: No, they wouldn't before. A number or them that voted
against the alternate and indicated they were opposed to solving
this by statutory, are now suggesting that that was a mistake and
that this is the approach that should be taken this time.
TUTTLE: About these new legislators they pose a certain problem,
do they not?
GOVERNOR: They do.
FREE: When you said by statute, you don't seen within the framework
or the present 38?
GOVERNOR: No, ma'am, I predicate statutory action on the assumption
that the constitutional limitation of 38 has been removed.
PHYS: Well, it would have to be approved by the court, wouldn't
it?
GOVERNOR: It would.
wALDRON: Governor, shouldn't it also be approved by the people in
all good conscience?
-9-
GOVERNOR: It should. The only circumstances under which n
bypassing or the people might be Justified would be to set up a
temporary expedient to reach the next Legislature so that they can
with deliberation approach this problem. I hate to reach such a
conclusion for several reasons, among them I dont want the next
Legislature torn up by this tight again. Also, I think that the
people having spoken on this, and rejected the plan that was offered
to them; they are entitled to be heard on any further plan. whether
or not the renuirements for speed and the necessity for deliberation
deprive us or the opportunity or submitting a temporary plan to
them is another question.
DELRNEY: Governor, where is the authority for this Legislature being
in office. effective as or day before yesterday? Is that in Just a
Supreme Court advisory opinion?
WALDRON: It is in the Constitution.
GOVERNOR: No. They were elected Tuesday and the authority is in the
people who elected them.
DELANEY: The Governor is elected in November, too, but he doesn't
take office until the following January.
GOVERNOR: Well, the Supreme Court has held that the election is as
or the closing of the polls on Tuesday.
DELANEY: This is for the legislators specifically?
GOVERNOR: Right, and if you will look at payoheekes issued for
Hovember you will see the paychecks begin as of that time.
DELanEY: But that author :y :2 n u Supwene sir: advisory opinion.
is that correcL?
GOVERNOR: was that an advisory opinion? It was a litigated case.
was it not?
HOYLE: Yes, sir. a case.
GOVERHOR: I believe he is thumbing it right now. (laughter)
PEFPBR: You regard. I think. the court as what you would call a
friendly court possibly -- would you think they would be more
receptive to a statutory constitutional amendment is that right?
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