|
SA INT VINCENT
GOVERNMENT
GAZETTE
VOL. 84;] SAINT VINCENT, WEDNESDAY, 7 FEBRUARY, 1951. [No. 8.
GOVERNMENT NOTICES.
No. 62.
APPOINTMENTS.
His Majesty the King has been pleased
to approve the appointment of His Hon-
our, DONALD EDWARD JACKSON, LL.B.,
as Chief Justice, Supreme Court of the
Windward and Leeward Islands in
successionn to Sir OLEMENT MALONE,
O.B.E.
7th February, 1951.
(J. 3151.)
No. 63.
MARRIAGE OFFICER.
The Reverend Father PAUL DEIMAJO,
O.P., has been appointed a Marriage Offi-
cer of the whole Colony with effect from
-6th February, 1951.
7th February, 1951.
(J. 25/t948).
No. 61.
PUBLIC LIBRARY.
Miss EILEEN BRERRTON, Junior Assis-
tint Librarian, Public Library, as anl
As si tant Librarian, Pu blie LibrarV. with
effect from 1st January, 1951.
7th February, 1951.
(P. F. 243).
No 65.
GENERAL CLERICAL SERVICE.
TRANSFER.
Miss SHIRLEY ANDERSON, Junior
Clerk, Agricultural Department, to Juni-
or Clerkship in Government Office, with
effect from 1st January, 1951.
7th February, 1951.
(P. F. 371).
No. 66.
APPRENTICESHIP COURSE, CAMDEN
PARK EXPERIMENT STATION.
Applications are invited for candidates
for the 1951-53 Apprenticeship Course
at the Camden Park Experiment Station,
SI. Vincent.
2. The object of this course is to pro-
duce good peasant farmers through a
two-year course of training.
3. The first year will be spent in re-
ceiving practical instruction on the
station, ;an apprentices will be expected
to prl'orm the manual tasks assigned to
them in demonstration of farming
methods. A test will be set students at
the end of the first year, and only
successful candidates will be permitted
to continue the course.
4. The second year's training will
include tihe operation of A Model Hold-
ing under the supervision of the Officer-
in-Charge.
5. Accominmodation will be provided
at Camden Park and Apprentices will
d~i~blid~Pd b~ guthaliit~.
44, SAINT VINCENT, WEDNESDAY, 7 FEBRUARY, 1951.-(No. 8).
receive a maintenance allowance of $312
per annum, and an additional personal
allowance of $144 per annum.
6. No obligation on the part of the
Department of Agriculture to provide
employment or to establish apprentices
on holdings on the completion of the
course is implied.
7. Applications should be addressed to
the Superintendent of Agriculture,
Kingstown and should reach this office
not later than 15th March, 1951.
8. Applicants should state their educa-
tional qualifications and agricultural
experience, and the facilities for estab-
lishing themselves as farmers when the
period of training ends.
7th February, 1951.
(B. 35/1945 (A)).
No. 67.
LEGISLATION.
The following documents are publish-
ed with this issue of the Gazette :--
S.R. & O. No. 8.-The Importation of
Animals (Diseases Prevention)
(Venezuela) Order, -1951.
(J. 1/1950).
S.R. & O. No. 9.--The Prices Control
(Amendment No. 5) Notice, 1951.
(T. 20/1949).
7th February, 1951.
No. 68.
SUPPLEMENT TO GAZETTE.
No. 53.
Copies of minutes of meeting of the
Legislative Council held on the 15th
May, 1950, which may also be seen at
the Government Office, Kingstown Li-
brary, and at all Revenue Offices and
District Post Offices, are published with
this issue of the Gazette.
7th February, 1951.
No. 61.
OFFICIAL PUBLICATION FOR SALE.
The following Official publication can
now be purchased, on application at
Government Office, at the price of
$1.80 :-
Report of the Commission on the
Establishment of a Customs Union
in the British Caribbean Area.
1st February, 1951.
(T. 19/1948).
By Command,
A. V. KING,
Acting Government Secretary.
GoVERNMENT OFFICE,
7th February, 1951.
DEPARTMENTAL AND
OTHER NOTICES.
INCOME TAX NOTICES.
TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
Every person concerned, not being a
Government Officer, is hereby reminded
that the latest date for the submission of
income tax returns for assessment in the
year 1951 is the 31st March, and that
failure to give notice of chargeability is
an offence againstthe Income Tax Ordin-
ance, rendering the person concerned
liable on conviction to a fine not exceed-
ing FOUR HUNDRED AND EIGHTY
DOLLARS.
2. EVERY PERSON whose income,
accruing in, derived from the Colony or
elsewhere and whether received in the
Colony or not for the preceding year,
exceeded the statutory limit of %480 is
required to submit a return in the pre-
scribed form, notwithstanding that on
account of approved deductions no tax
may eventually be chargeable, and par-
ticular attention is directed to the fact
that the term "income" is deemed to-
include not only money but also allow-
ances in kind.
3. Efforts are being made to send
blank return forms to such persons. It
is to be clearly understood, however,
that-a person is not exonerated from the
statutory liability to make a return even
though that person may not have re-
ceived a blank form, which may be ob-
tained, on application, at the Revenue
Offices at Georgetown, Barrouallie,.
Bequia and Union Island, or, in the
other districts from the Police Station
situate therein. These forms may also-
be obtained from the Income Tax Office,
Kingstown, where any person requiring
information in connection therewith is
invited to enquire.
4. The form, correctly completed,.
should be accompanied by all necessary
supporting statements. Specimens of
the form of account required from small
traders and from occupiers or cultivators
of land will be supplied on request.
TO TRADERS, BUSINESSMEN AND
PROFESSIONAL MEN.
Attention is directed to the provisions.
of Sections 73 and 68 of the Income Tax
Ordinance No. 23 of 1948 which read as-
follows:-
SAINT VINCENT, WEDNESDAY, 7 FEBRUARY, 1951.-(No. 8). 45
"73. Any person engaged
in any trade, business or
profession shall keep in
the English language pro-
per books of account suffi-
cient to record all trans-
actions necessary in order
to ascertain the gains and
profits made or the loss
incurred in each such
trade, business or profes-
sion, and any snch person
who fails to comply with
this provision shall be
guilty of an offence, and-
in addition to any penalty
incurred he shall be liable
to pay any tax to which
he may be assessed under
the provisions of this
Ordinance."
" 68. Any person guilty of
an offence against this
Ordinance shall be liable
on summary conviction
before a Magistrate-, to a
fine not exceeding four
hundred and eighty
dollars, and in default of
payment to imprisonment,
with or without hard
labour, for any term not
exceeding six months".
permanent issue of these two denomi-
nations will be withdrawn from sale
Traders, while the West Indies University Com-
etc., to memorative Stamps remain in issue.
keep I
accounts 3. The lower value of the temporary
in Eng- Commemorative issue depicts the Arms-
lish of the College" and the higher value a
fnll length portrait of H.R.H. Princess-
ALICE seated in her robes as Chancellor..
Both values bear the Royal cypher and
the wording "University College of the-
\West Indies."
Penal-
ties for
offences
2. The Commissioners of Income Tax
intend to enforce the provisions of the
sections referred to above.
V. C. JOSSE,
Income Tax Offi'er.
Income Tax Office,
Kingstown,
29th December, 1950.
POST OFFICE NOTICE.
It is notified for general information
that St. Vincent West Indies University
Commemorative temporary issue stands
in 3 c'?nts and 12 cents denomination
will be issued on 16th February, 1951
and vill remain on issue for a period of
3 months or until sntcks are exhausted.
2. The current St. Vincent stamps in
G. ELFORD WILLIAMS,
Colonial Postmaster.
General Post Office,
St. Vincent,
30th January, 1951.
(Q. 2/1950.)
CUSTOMS NOTICE.
The undermentioned goods huve been
seized for a breach of section 48 (2)-
Cap. 183:-
One Sheep.
One Cock.
BERNARD GIBBS,
Collector of Customs.
Customs,
31st January, 1951.
TREASURY NOTICES.
KINGSTOWN BOARD ASSESSMENT
ROLL, 1951.
Under the provisions of Section 61 of
the Kingstcwn Bo;id Ordinance 1897.
notice is hereby given that the original
assessment list of the Kingstown Board
for the current year may be seen at the-
Treasury, Kingstown. betew(en the Ist
lday of March and 31st. day of May next-
and atte::dance will ie given during that
period for receiving the rates and taxes
fixed by the Board.
BERNARD GIBBS,
Ac(infg Colonial Trsrea r.
Treasury Ch ambets,
St. Vincent.
Ist February, 1951.
LAND AND HOUSE TAX NOTICES.
Notice is hereby given that the under-mentioned persons having become
defaulters under the "Land & House Tax Ordinance" their properties having
been levied .upon will be offered for Sale at 12. o'clock noon on Saturday, 17tlk
February, 1951, at the Treasury for the recovery of Taxes due thereon.
C. B. GIBBS,
Colonial Treasurer (Acting).
Treasury,
St. Vincent,
26th January, 1951.
46 SAINT VINCENT, WEDNESDAY, 7 FEBRUARY, 1951.--No. 8).
Names
Jack, Luther
Henry, Christiana
Finch, Caroline
Williams, Alice
'Gibson, Adeatha Jane
Joseph, Esther
Lawrence, Albertha
Samuel, Leonard
Cordice, Laura
DaSantos, Alban
Lewis, Letitia
Matthews, James
Doyle, James
Mason, Ruth
Stapleton, Wilfred
Ferdinand, Adina
Ferdinand Joseph
Lockhart, Rupert
Providence, Edward
Thomas, Henry
Wickham, James
Patrick, John
DISTRICT III
Situation of Property
Chauncey
Lowmans. (Ld)
Questelles
Lowmans
Campden Park
Castle Grant
Chauncey
Clare Valley
Layou Hill
Montrose
DISTRICT IV
Mason River
Rutland Vale
DISTRICT V
Rose Bank
Richmond Vale
Rose Hall
Belmont
Rose Bank
Rose Hall
Coull's Hill
Spring
Description of Property
1 House Spot
1 House
20 Poles
1 House
1 House spot
2 Roods
1 House
1 acre
1 House
1 House
1 Rood
1 acre
1 House spot
1 House
1 House
1 acre 1 Rood
1 House spot
4 acre 2 Rds 4 Poles
6 Acres, 2 Roods 25 Poles
1 House
1 House
6 acres, 2 Rds. 32 Poles
Notice is hereby given that the under-mentioned persons having become
defaulters under the Land and House Tax Ordinance ", their properties having
been levied upon will be offered for sale at 12 o'clock noon on Saturday the 10th
day of February 1951 at the Treasury for the recovery of Taxes due thereon.
BERNARD GIBBS,
Acting Colonial Treasurer.
Treasury,
St. Vincent.
13. 1. 51.
Arthur
Euada
Cornelia
Francis H.
Maglyn and others
Vida
Hugh
John
Samuel
Robert
DISTRICTT I"
Victoria. Village
Marriaqua
do
do
do
do
Belair
Green Hill
Carriere
New Town
House Spot
Acres of Land
do
Rood. 36 Poles
acres
Acre
House
House
Spot
House
DISTRICT III
Chauncey
DISTRICT IV
Rutland Vale
Cambridge
Boatswain
Bute
Bute
Bute
Bute
Gaynes
Haynes
Hunt
Williams
Harry
Elize
Georgina
James
1 acre.
13 Poles
PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT,
[ Price 24 cents.
SAINT VINCENT..
STATUTORY RULES AND ORDE _
1951, No. 8.
IMPORTATION OF ANIMALS (DISEASES PREVENTION)
(VENEZUELA) ORDER.
(Gazetted 7th February, 1951).
1. Short title. This Order may be cited as the Importation of Animals.
(Diseases Prevention) (Venezuela) Order, 1951.
2. Prohibition of Importation. Notwithstanding anything contained
in the Regulations made by the Governor in Council on the 4th day of September,
1934, under the Importation of Animals (Diseases Prevention) Ordinance, 1933,
the landing in the Colony of cloven-footed animals, carcasses of such animals,
fodder, litter or dung from Venezuela is hereby prohibited owing to an outbreak of
Foot and Mouth disease in that country.
Made by the Governor in Council under section 3 of the Importation of
Animals (Diseases Prevention) Ordinance, No. 2 of 1933 this 26th day of January,
1951.
HENRY H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Clerk of Executive Council.
(J 1/1950.)
PRINTED BY THE GOVERNMENT PRINTER AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, ST. VINCENT.
E Price 4 cents. ]
73S .1951.
/. ,VN6.g
L
'r
'r ~ :
1951, No. 9.
PRICES CONTROL (AMENDMENT NO. 5) NOTICE
(Gazetted 7th February, 1951).
.1. Short title;. This Notice may be cited as thel Prices Control.
A. Amendment No. 5) Notice.
2. A ndmedmelt. The iricts set out hereunder are the Maiximum
prices for which the articles enumerated may be sold in the Colony and the First
Schedule Part B to the Prices Control Order 1947 (S. R'. & O. ZJo. 25) is. hereby
- amended by deleting all the words, figures and symbols oceuring in the columns
opposite the articles : Coffee Ground-Lobse,'"O.K.," Butter Cooking-Supreme
.Brand," Margarine Table-' Canary Brand '," Onions-Canadian, No. 1 Small,"
"Potatoes-Canadian, No. 1," "Pork Scalps--Pickled," and substituting therefore
the following -- ,
FIRST SBOEDULE-PART B.
Article:
"
Coffee Ground-Loose
S"Q. K."
Butter Cooking-
Australian Supreme
Brand c
Margarine Table-
Canary Brand
Oniops-Canad-ian-
No. 1. Smill
Maximum Wholesale Price,
Area "
$1.09 per lb. in lots of
25 lbs. or more
$4.45 per tin of 5 lbs.
$21.11 per tin of 25 Ibs.
$39.95 per case of
50-2 lb. tins
1.90 per tin of 5 lbs.
.34 per tin of 25 lbs.
$9.74 per crate of 75'lbs.
$1.25 pe
98c. per
Maximum Retail Prise.
A" Ared "' Area "C.-
,r lb. $l.26 per lb. $1.27 par fe..
lb. 99c. per lb. $1.0Q per lb.
90c. per tin
43c. per lb.
16c. per lb.
34 IV-01291V
2P V.1 21t
91c. per tin
44c. "per lb.
17c. per Ibc
92c. per tin
45c. per lb.
18c. per lb.
1PeT,Oi]
, -
-:, -i i
SSSTAT AINTY VIENNT.
STATUTORY RT-ILES AND
Article. Maximum Wholesale Price Maximum Retail Price.
Area A' Area B." Area C."
Potatoes-Canadian--
No. 1 $ ...' $3.70 per bag of 75 lbs. 7c. per lb. 8e. per lb. 9c. per lb.
Pork Saalps-Pickled ... $G;.6GOper brl. of 200 lbs. 3(;c. per lb. 37c. per lb, 38c. per lb.
S 32c. p.er lb. in lots
of 20 lbs. or more
Area A" means the town of Kingstown and within one mile thereof.
Area B means all other places throughout the Colony other thanthose.
mentioned in Areas "A" and "C ".
Area C" means all the villages of -Overland, Sandy Bay, Owia, Fancy.
Windsor Forest ana, the St. Vincent Grenadines.
Made by the, Conmpetent Authority under seettori 30 of the Prices Control
Order (S.R. & O. oo. 25) 1947 this 3rd day of February, 1951.
A. V. SPROTT
Controllerof Supplies.
(T 20/1949).
PRINTED BY THE
GOVERNMENT PRINTER AT THE GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE,
KINGSTOWN, S- VINCENT.
L Price 8 cents.
,1951.
S i '
MVINOTES OF A MEETING OF THE LEGIFLA IVE COUNCIL OP SAINT VINCENT
HELD IN THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL CHAMBER OT MONDAY, 15TH MAY,
195-0 ATV0 A.M.
PRESENT
'His Honour the Administrator, W. F. COUTTS, M.B.E.-President,
The Honourable D. K. MCINTYRE, Acting Crown Attorney,
MCDONALD SMITH, Acting Colonial Treasurer,
S" W. A. HADLEY, Nominated Member,
". 0: D. BRISBANE, 'Nominated Member,
S E. A. C. HUGHES, Nominated Member,
S G. A. MCINTOSH, Member for Kingstown,
E. DUNCAN, Member for North Windward,
S" E. A. JOACHIM, Member for Leeward,
S" S. G. DEFREITAS, Member for the Grenadines.
ABSENT
The Honourable S. F. BONADIE, Member for South Windward, excused.
1. PRAYERS.
The meeting was opened with prayer
2. CONFIRMATION OF MINUTES.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Quite a few amendments have been
made to these minutes. I mentioned them to the Clerk of Councils but I do not
think they have been incorporated.
The minutes of the meeting of the Council held on the 20th October, 1240
were confirmed with the following amendments :-
Page 9 : Substitution of the word "against" for the word "to" at the
beginning of the second line of the penultimate paragraph. Insertion
of a period after the word arranged in the third line thereof.
Page 10 : Clause 6-Substitution of the word "insertion" for the word
"inclusion in the second line thereof.
Page 12: Insertion of the word "tobacco" after the word "other" at the
end of the last line of the first paragraph."
Page, 13 : Clause 2-Insertion of the word "those between the words
make and formal" in line three thereof.
Page 14 : In the fourth line above the heading MOTIONS, substitution of
the word vest" for the word confer and the word in for the word
on "; and deletion of the last four words, for the purpose required."
-In the third paragraph under the heading MOTIONS, substitution of
the word Pensions for the word Principal" in the third line thereof:
and the words "those Governments for the words "the Government"
in the fourth line thereof.
Page 16-: Substitution of the w6rd "scale" for the word "stage" in the
second line; substitution of the word "Regulations for the word "Bill"
at the end of the fourth paragraph.
3. ANNOUNCEMENTS.
There is only one announcement that I wish to make this morning,
and that is, at the meeting of the Unofficial Members of Council which was held
last Friday morning it was considered that the Elected Members had not had
sufficient time to consult their constituents about the Standing Closer
Association's report on the subject of Federation. In view of this therefore it has
been decided that the debate on this Report, should be postponed until another
meeting of Council, and therefore the Motion which appears as No. 2 on page 5 of
the Order Paper under the name of the Honourable G. A. McIntosh and also
Motion No. 1 under the name of the Acting Crown Attorney with reference to the
Report of the Public Services Commission under the Chairmanship of Sir Maurice
Holmes G.B.E., K.C.B., in relation to the unification of' the Public Services of the
British Caribbean Area will not be debated at this session.
4.- NOTICES OF QUESTIONS.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Your Honour and Honourable Members
of Council, I give notice that I shall ask at a subsequent meeting of Council the
following questions :-
1. Will Government please explain how was it possible to expend so much
money on oiling the Lower Edinboro road which was in perfect condition,
before paying attention to the upper Edinboro road where the people are
unable to get out when rain falls? "
2. "Will Government please say if the policy now is to demonstrate to the
public that private individuals and bodies are able to approach Government
and get things done while the request of their representatives on Council
are ignored, refused or turned down? "
3. Will Government please state what is the position with regard to the
poorer classes of persons being treated with penicillin and sulpha drugs,
it having been brought to my notice that injections etc. are very expensive
and above the reach of the poor people? "
4. "Will Government please state if adequate supplies of these drugs are
kept at the Colonial Hospital so as to ensure free treatment to deserving
persons? "
Honourable Member for Leeward: Your Honour and Honourable Members
of Council, I give notice that I shall ask the following questions at a subsequent
meeting of Council:-
1. "Will Government please say what is the reason for the suspension of
work on the water supply at Du Bois in the Buccament Valley? "
2. "Will Government please say what is the position relative to the erection
of a Dispensary and Nurse's quarters at Layou? "
3. "In view of the fact that there have been numerous bus accidents at the
Jameson Hole and Camden Park corners on the Leeward Highway, with
a consequent loss of human lives and property, will Government consider
the advisability of erecting retaining walls at these corners? "
.4. "In view of the fact that the crews of blackfish boats when out at nights
find it difficult to locate the island, and also inasmuch as it has been
brought to my notice that Captains of steamboats and vessels encounter
the same difficulty, will Government please take steps to improve the light
at Fort Charlotte or provide adequate means to remedy this situation? "
5. NOTICES OF MOTIONS.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Your Honour and Honourable Members
of Council, I give notice that I shall move the-following motion at a subsequent
meeting of this Council :-
In view of the fact that when there is a scarcity of fish in Kingstown,
the poorer classes of persons who stand in line, are just able to see all the fish
being disposed of behind the counter :
"Be it Resolved that Government through the Controller of Supplies
take steps to remedy this undesirable condition."
6. PAPERS LAID.
Council Paper No. 13 of 1950-Decisions taken at Budget Session of Finance
Committee, 21st to 24th November, 1949.
Council Paper No. 14 of 1950-Minutes of the meeting of Finance Committee held
on the 6th December, 1949.
Council Paper No. 15 of 1950-Minutes of the meeting of Finance Committee held
on the 16th December, 1949.
Council Paper No. 16 of 1950-Minutes of the meeting of Finance Committee held
on 10th January, 1950.
Council Paper No. 17 of 1950-Minutes of the meeting of Finance Committee held
on the 31st January, 1950.
Council Paper 'No. 18 of 1950-Report on the Electricity, Telephone and
Refrigeration Department for the year 1949.
In typescript: Report on the Public Library for the year 1949.
Report of the Registrar, Supreme Court, for the year 1949.
QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.
President: I have received an apology from the Honourable E. A. C. Hughes
who is for the moment occupied in Court, but I suppose he will join us in due
course.
I therefore call upon the Honourable G. A. McIntosh to ask the questions
standing in his name.
Honourable Member for Kingstcwn:
Q. 1. Will Government make provision for lectures in Agriculture to be delivered
to pupils of Primary Schools throughout the Colony by Officers of the
Agricultural Department?
A. Under the prqyisions of Regulation 52. of the Regplatiois fo. Government
and Assisted Primary ,Schools, Agriculture is included il the curficuilumn
for Primair Schools, Present practice is as fbilods --
Where space is available on the school premises or nearby, training in
agriculture is given in the form of practical garden work to the boys in
the upper divisions of the schools by the Head Teachers or suitable
male assistants. These garden plots are visited periodically by the
junior agricultural officers who advise the teachers and sometimes
give practical demonstrations.
It is proposed to review the existing system with a view to making its
operation more effective.
Q. 2. Will Government consider the amendment of the Rent Restriction
Ordinance so as to give the Rent Restriction Board power to deal with all
rentals of property, whether for business or dwelling purposes?
A. This matter is receiving the active consideration of Government.
Q. 3. (a) Government having given to Leslin Clarke of Richmond Hill a house
'as compensation tor the death of her son who was killed by an electric
wire (this house was given to her, however, only for her lifetime and
not outright), will Government take steps to have this house kept in
proper repair both in the interest oi tne woman and in the interest of
Government to whom this house must revert on the death of this
woman?
(b) Alternatively, will Government consider making this house an
outright gift to Leslin Clarke?
A. Government has decided to maintain the house in proper repair.
Q. 4. In view of the fact that nearly all the fish brought for sale in the
Kingstown Market is sold in the '" Black Market ", and it is stated that this
is done openly in the view of the local authority, will Government take
steps to remedy this situation?
A. Government has already taken steps to remedy the situation and is
considering what further action may oe taken to improve conditions in the
future.
Q. 5. In view of the fact that complaints are made concerning the method by
which persons are made to queue up in the Kingstown Market for iish, and
tle majority of poor people stand in line and remain there until ail the fish
1j sola otherwise, will Government pay some attention to this matter
through the Control Department so as to enable the poorer classes to
obtain lish, and to be able to buy it at Control prices?
A. Tne attention of the Kingstown Board was drawn to the lack of proper
control on the fish queue in tne Kingstown Market, due to inadequate
supervision. It is unc.erstooa that the situation is now well in hand.
Q. 6. Will Government please give attention to the road to Montrose along the
North River bank upwards to Liberty Lodge-and also see to the
installation of lights along this route?
A. It had been intended, among other things, to asphalt at least a portion of
tne Montrose-Bowooa Road in 1950, but the Colony's financial position did
not permit the provision to be retained in the 1650 Colonial Estimates.
This old earthen ocad with its thin macadam wearing coat was never
designed to bear the heavy load of motorized traffic which it now carries
daily.
However, until such time as funds can be. found by the Colony to
implement a progressive programme of suburban improvements in the
greater Kingstown area, users of roads like this will have to be satisfied
with modest maintenance.
The installation of lights along this road will have to await the
development of a new supply of electricity.
Q. 7. There being two holes at the Court House gate where water collects,
presenting a very undesirable condition during the rainy season, will
Government consider asphalting the path from the gate to the steps so as
to make a better approach to this Council Chamber?
A. The holes at the Court House gate have been filled, but the larger issue of
asphalting the walk will have to await consideration with the 1951
Estimates.
Q. 8. Can I be informed as to how soon Government intends to pay attention to
the remaining portion of the Richmond Hill Land Settlement Village so as
to be enabled to inform the villagers who are very dissatisfied over the
continued long neglect of their interests there?
A. As regards roads, the Honourable Member will remember that provision
for all the Kingstown suburban area roads was made in the draft estimates,
1950, but subsequently had to be deleted.
As regards electricity, the existing load cannot be increased until a
new form of supply has been installed.
As regards water, the attention of the Kingstown Board will be drawn
to their requirements. -
Q. 9. Due to the fact that there is a great deal of discouragement to the
development of Trades Unionism by certain Heads of Departments and
other persons employed in Government Departments, the Government
Cotton Ginnery and the Arrowroot Association, will Government openly
declare its policy concerning Trades Unionism in St. Vincent?
A. It is the policy of this Government to encourage the establishment and
development of Trade Unions, but in the absence of a well organised
Union, it falls within the functions'bf the Department of Labour to carry
out negotiations in respect of wage-rates, hours of work, and other
conditions of employment for workers engaged in industrial and
commercial undertakings in the Colony.
Q. 10. In view of the fact that this Council has voted 100 per annum for music
and on occasions when music is needed for public functions there is none
to be had, will Government please take early steps to remedy this very
unsatisfactory situation?
A. Provision for the grant of 100 to the Music Council in this year's estimates
was made only after the Council had assured Government that active
measures had been taken for obtaining instruments with a view to getting
a Police Band started. The arrival of the instruments is awaited, and
Government will use its best endeavours to have the band started as soon
as practicable.
President: I now call upon the Honourable E. A. Joahhimn, Member lori
Leeward to ask the questions standing in his name.
Honourable Member for Leeward :
Q. 1. Will Government please say how soon it is intended to start work on the
new school at Barrouallie?
A. It is hoped that work on the new school at Barrouallie will be started
during the present month.
Q. 2. Will Government please take immediate steps to improve the portion of
the Leeward Highway from Layou to Buff River?
A. Necessary minor repairs to this portion of the Leeward Highway will be
carried out during the second half of this year. This section of road
(Layou to Mt. Wynne) is listed for reconstruction during 1951.
Q. 3. Will Government please take early steps to provide house spots.for *14
persons who have been given notice to quit the lands they now occupy on
Rutland Vale estate?
A. This matter is already receiving the active consideration of Government.
Q. 4. In view of the fact that the fishermen of Barrouallie are quite often out at
nights; and.in view also of the fact that they find it very difficult to find
their way home, will Government please consider the possibility of placing
a light on Maroon Rock to remedy this situation?
A. Government is advised that such a light will be necessary only on very rare
occasions and that the local fishermen are quite capable of finding their
way about without it. In view of this it is felt that the expenditure
involved would be unjustifiable.
Q. 5. Will Government please place before this House the report of the enquiry
made into the case of Miss Harry, the late District Post Mistress of
Troumaca?
A. Yes.
Q. 6. Will Government state if there is any truth in the rumour that at the
Troumaca Post Office at present, delivery of letters.and sale of stamps are
only made early in the morning and late in the evening?
A. The delivery of letters and the sale of stamps are carried out by the
District Postmaster at Troumaca in the morning, at midday, and in the
evening. This post is a part time one, and this service is considered to be
enough for a small post office which handles only letters and the sale of
.stamps.
BILLS.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that this Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Public Library
Bill which was adjourned in Committee at the last meeting of Council (30th
March, 1950).
Honourable Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
PUBLIC LIBRARY BILL.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to meniti6oi for the information
of Honourable Members, that since the last meeting of this Council it was
discovered that the Kingstown Board'did not receive the letter that was sent to
them asking for their views with regard to this Bill; since then I have been in
touch with them and I think we have the matter straightened out now. They put
before us one or two amendments for consideration. I discussed these with the
Secretary of the Board and two other members nho deputized for the Chairman,
Mr. Bonadie, who happened to be on sick leave.
The amendments start on the second page of the printed Bill : Section 2-
Interpretation :
"Chairman" means the Chairman of the Library Committee created by this
Ordinance, and includes an Acting Chairman thereof.
Instead of the words "created by this Ordinance" I propose to substitute
"established by this Ordinance "; that is the phrase used in section 3; and also
propose to delete the last six words : that is, and includes an Acting Chairman
thereof ". The section will now read, "'Chairman' means the Chairman of the
Library Committee established under this Ordinance."
The next amendment to that section is the deletion of the definition of
"Library" and substituting therefore the following definition :
"'Library' means the Free Public Library established under the Library
Ordinance in the building erected on lands of thie Kingstown Board as described
in the preamble to this Ordinance out of funds provided by Andrew Carnegie for
that purpose."
President : With these amendments may Clause 2 stand part of the Bill?
Agreed to.
Clause 3-Administrative Control of Library.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : We decided to delete the major part of
that. The Kingstown Board did not like the words "The Library established-in
the building created by the Kingstown Board upon land belonging to the said
Board in the Town of Kingstown out of funds provided by Andrew Carnegie for
that purpose shall be under the administrative control of the Head of the
Education Department : for they placed not only the library but also the
building and lands under the control of the Head of the Education Department.
They wished to retain control of the land and the building. I suggest that the
Library itself as established in that building, and not the land, shall be under the
administrative control of the- Government of St. Vincent, and the section should
read as follows-" The Library shall be under the administrative cohtrol'of the
Government of Saint Vincent."
Honourable Member for Kingstown: The building and land remain the
property of the Board?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Yes. It is only the services of the
library that are being reorganised, the building and the property will remain as
before.
Question that Clause 3 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Maintenance of Library Services.
President: There are no amendments suggested by the Kingstown Board.
May Clause 4 stand part of the Bill?
Agreed.
Clause 5-Appointment of Librarian Offcirs 'and Servants.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 6-Library Committee.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : No recommendations as to amendment
were made with regard to subparagraph (1) ; but the constitution of the Committee
was queried by the Board and the following is the amendment now put forward :
(2) The Committee shall consist of-
(a) A Chairman and two other persons to be appointed by the
Governor; and
(b) Two persons to be appointed by the Kingstown Board.
(3) The Governor may appoint a member of the Board to be Deputy
Chairman and in the absence of the Chairman the Deputy Chairman
shall act in his stead."
Honourable Member for Kingstown: This is a public institution; is the
Kingstown Board contributing anything?
President: $600 a year.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Subsection (4) remains the same;
subsection (5) has been amended to read as follows :-
"The period of service of members of the Committee shall be one year but
any member shall be eligible for re-appointment to the Committee."
Subsection (6) has been amended to read as follows :-
Any member of the Committee may resign his seat by letter addressed to
the Governor, and the Governor may at any time revoke any appointment made
by him."
Subsection (7) has been amended by the deletion of the word nominations and
substituting therefore resignations and appointments."
The word attend ", a typographical error, in line 2 of subsection (8) should be
" attended."
Subsection (9) has been amended to read as follows:-
In case of the absence on leave or owing to ill health of any member of the
Committee, the Governor or the Board, as the case may be, may appoint another
person to act in his stead during such absence."
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Who really makes the appointment?
President: The Governor appoints three members and the Board appoints
two members.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: .That would mean the Kingstown
Board?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Yes; as defined in the interpretation
clause. Subsection (10) remains the same. A subsection (11) has been inserted
which reads as follows :-
"Should a vacancy occur among the members of the Committee through
death, resignation or otherwise, the Governor, or the Board, as the case may be,
may appoint another person to fill the vacancy so created."
President: Have these amendments been fully understood by Honourable
Members?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : The only thing I would like to comment
on is how zealous this Chairman of the Board is in giving the Board power now
and he wanted to take all the power away when he was not a member of the
Committee.
Question that Clause 6 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 7-Meetings of Committee and procedure threat.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: In subsection (1) the word "shall"
has been changed to may ". If I remember rightly that was suggested by this
Council when the Bill was previously considered. This subsection has also been
amended by the addition at the end of the words but shall meet at least once in
every three months."
President : Is that agreed?
Members : Agreed.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Subsection (2) stands without
amendment; and in subsection (3) it was decided that in the fifth line the word
" interest" should be deleted, that the Chairman should not have power to
withhold a paper because the member is interested but may withhold it if the
member is ill or absent from the Colony or otherwise.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : What do you mean by otherwise? "
President : Do you suggest that it be deleted.
Honourable W. A. Hadley: No.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : In subsection (5) the first word "The"
has been deleted and the subsection altered to read :
Decisions of the Committee shall be taken by a majority of votes. In any
case in which the voting is equal, the Chairman shall have a second or casting
vote."
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I suppose his would refer to her "
too?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Yes; that is so under the Interpretation
Ordinance.
Subsection (6) has been amended to read :
"The Librarian, or in his absence any other person appointed under section 5
of this Ordinance, shall be Secretary of the Committee, and shall attend the
meetings of the Committee and may speak threat, but shall have no vote."
Question that Clause 7 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 8-Functions of Committee.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Clause 8 was unchanged.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 9-Ownership and Maintenance of Library Building and Grounds.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Subsection (2) has been amended to
read as follows :-
The said building and land shall not be used for any purpose other than for
purposes connected with the Library and public library services : Provided that
the Kingstown Board may permit the said building and land to be used for any
purpose which is not inconsistent with or detrimental to the interests of the
Library or public library services, and upon such terms and conditions as the
Board shall think fit."
This is exactly as it was under the old Cap, 210.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : You have given them in this
Subsection (2) powers they did not have before.
Honourable Acting Crowh Attoiney That wi~v so uhder the old Ordinance;
that is what they have been making a fuss about.
(Honourable E. A. C. Hughes arrives and apologizes for his lateness.)
They did not like the Committee shall consist of the Chairman and not more
than four other members nominated by the Governor, of which two shall -be
nominated by the Kingstown Board." They said they did not wish to relinquish
their hold on the land and the building because in the old Ordinance they had
three members on the Library Committee. I only put in what the Board
recommended but what strikes me is this; having now put the power of
appointment in the Board, is it still necessary to give the Kingstown Board power
to lease the building for other public functions. I see there is likely to be a
contention between the Library Committee and the Board over this matter. The
Board might want it rented out for a dance.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I agree with you. I think it should be
as it was before. The Library Committee who have intimate knowledge of what is
taking place there should be the person to say when it should be rented out.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane: I do not think they should hold any dances
there at all.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I think that the Library services may
be so extended that the whole of the upper storey may be used for library
purposes.
Honourable W. A. Hadley: I think this should be vested in the Library
Committee and not the Board.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : The Committee should know for what
purposes this building could be used without clashing with other purposes.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : The Library Committee should have a say in it
and the Kingstown Board should have a say; and I do not see why we cannot
have dual control.. : ...:-.t.'
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Suppose the Committee says the
Library is going to be wanted today, and you cannot have it, and the Board says
We must have it"? #. ;
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Not dual control as such, but if the Board says
"Let us have it", and the Committee says No ", you cannot. You are not going
to find much conflict over whether people should be allowed to have a meeting
there. This is the point which created all the friction at the last meeting; and as
Mr. Bonadie is not here I am trying to put forward what he would put forward if
he were here. Merely for the purpose of letting it to outsiders I suggest that
there should be dual control, so that before any group of persons would be allowed
to get that building both parties should be satisfied.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane: Applications should be made to the Board as
well as the Committee?
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : That is the only way I see out of it. They used
to have a majority, they now have a minority representation, and representation is
now not the same as it used to be.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : I am of the opinion the Committee should decide.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I think the idea must be that they
should get remuneration from the rent of that hall and it is not worth while to
sacrifice the services of the library for that small amount.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes: You can't get away from the logic of the
argument that Section 9 says they have the responsibility incident on ownership
but none of the rights incident on ownership.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : They never had?
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : They had a majority on the Board of Control;
when they had three members they were in control.
President : Can you suggest how the dual control would work?
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes :, Would it be alright to let application be made
to the Kingstown Board and they would have to get permission from the Library
Committee.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: The Committee would be the
controlling body.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Both; for if either said 'no', it could not be
used.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : There would be great confusion and conflict.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: We want to put that in some
responsible hand. I do not think the majority of the members of the Kingstown
Board are so keen on having this control. I do not like this dual control in the
interest of the library.
Honourable Member for North Windward: The funds were placed in the
hands of Government or the hands of the Board?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Board built the Library from the
funds.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : To whom would the rents go?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I do not know off-hand, but I believe.
to the Committee.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : That formed part of their revenue.
What I am saying is that the Board is simply standing on their dignity for they
get nothing out of it.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Suppose we make provision that the
Kingstown Board may permit the said building and land to be used for any
purpose which in the opinion of the Governor in Council is not inconsistent with
the purposes of the library.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : That would take too long.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : It seems to me it,is the opinion of the majority
that the Committee should control the building. I want to make it quite clear
that I have no particular axe to grind. I have no particular desire..to see the
Committee or the Board control it; I am just putting this forward because Mr.
Bonadie is not here.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I do not know if it would be carrying
out the conditions of the trust.
President : Generally speaking there is no other place suitable for meetings,
dances etc.
Honourable Member for Kirigatown : That was applicable in the past.
President : The thing would be settled by the provision of some other place
where people could meet. In the meanwhile, does it really matter whether the
Kingstown Board control it or not?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I see that if you have a rushed application for
a meeting one afternoon, you can take it to the library, but if you have to get in
touch with the Kingstown Board as well and you cannot get in touch with them
you cannot have the meeting.
President : Would somebody make a definite proposal on this?
Honourable Crown Attorney : I suggest we allow it to remain like this
and if we have any definite recommendation in the future we could amend the
Ordinance accordingly.
President: It is suggested by the Crown Attorney that the amendment
giving the Board the power to control it stand. Does anyone want to make a
counter proposal to that?
Members : No.
Question that Clause 9 as amended by a new subsection (2) stand part of the
Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 10-Regulations.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 11-Financial Matters.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Are these in perfect keeping with the
British Council requirements? There must be no contribution from readers. The
British Council is not going to support it if you have subscriptions any more.
President : There is no suggestion that anyone should have to pay.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 12-Recovery of penalties and fines.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 13-Repeal and saving.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I would like to make a slight amendment
to 13(a) by the insertion after the word Ordinance in the second line of the
words and not inconsistent with the provisions of this Ordinance "; I think that
is very essential if it is going to be free. Since we are now having appointments
to the Committee, (both by the Board and the Governor) the word nominated "
in the fourth and sixth lines of subsection (b) is unsuitable and should be
amended to appointed ".
President : With these amendments may Clause 13 stand part of the Bill?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : You are not going to make fresh Rules?
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Until new Rules are made.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Ordinance has to go through to
provide for the Rules.
Question put and agreed to.
Preamble.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Committee
rise, the Council resume and the President report to the House.
Honaurable Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Council Resumes.
President : Honourable Members I have the honour to report that an
Ordinance to re-organise the Free Public Library and to provide for an efficient
Public Library Service throughout the Colony has passed through the Committee
stage with sundry amendments.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled, the Public Library Ordinance, 1950, be read a third
time and passed.
Honourable Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
QUESTIONS AND REPLIES (continued),
President: I now call upon the Honourable E. A. C. Hughes, Nominated
Member, to ask the questions standing in his name.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes :
Q. 1 (a) Will Government state whether one of the main reasons for the
existence of the Camden Park Experiment Station is the improvement
of livestock in the Colony?
(b) If the answer is in the affirmative, will Government please state why
persons seeking the services of stud animals at the station are faced
with so many restrictions and difficulties?
A. (a) The reply is in the affirmative.
(b) Government is not aware that restrictions and difficulties are placed
in the way of those desiring to obtain the services of stud animals at
the station. Necessary measures have, of course, to be taken for the
protection of costly stud animals, as is the practice in all progressive
stud farms and stud centres in well-developed agricultural
communities. Perhaps the Honourable Member would submit to the
Administration particular instances of the difficulties encountered.
Q. 2. (a) In view of the high cost of imported animal feeds, will Government
please state whether the Agricultural Department has prepared
formulae for the preparation of relatively inexpensive animal feeds
made largely from local produce?
(b) If the reply is in the affirmative, will Government please see that these
formulae are made available to the general public?
A. (a)' The Agricultural Department has prepared feed formulae with local
foodstuffs. The feeds have to approximate as closely as possible to a
"balanced ration ", which necessitates the importation of mineral
mixtures and animal proteins. These naturally raise the cost of the
feeds.
(b) The first of these formulae dealing with dairy cattle will soon be
published in the "Vincentian." Formulae for other classes of stock
will follow.
Q. 3. In view of the lack of pavilion accommodation at the Island's playing
fields, will Government please state whether consideration has been given
to the possibility of combining the proposed Peace Memorial Hall with a
pavilion at the new Grammar School playing field?
A. It is believed that this suggestion was considered by the Peace Memorial
Hall Committee, but the Honourable Member will no doubt consult the
Chairman of that Committee.
Q. 4. Will Government state for the information of this Council what is the
present position with regard to the Kingstown Market?
A. A long term scheme to be carried out in stages has been drawn up. The
entire scheme consists of-
(1) Reclamation of a part of the bay front
(2) Building of covered vegetable market
(3) Building of vendors' stalls
(4) Building of fish market
(5) Building of abattoir
TIhe detailed plans and drawings have been prepared by the draughtsman
attached to the Development and Welfare Organisation and will be
presented to the Council in due course.
Q. 5. Will Government please state when the new water service is expected to
become a truly regional service instead of a Kingstown and district water
service as at present?
A. As soon as the loans to cover the 'cost of the "regional" works can be
raised by Government and as soon (after that) as the works can be put
on the ground within the means of those loan funds.
Q. 6. (a) Will Government please state whether other Colonies served by
British West Indian Airways Limited are required to keep a launch
similar to the one recently received locally?
(b) If the answer is in the negative, will Government state why it is
necessary for such a launch to be.stationed here?
(e) Will Government please state whose will be the financial responsibility
for the upkeep of this launch including salaries, etc., payable to the
personnel employed in connection with it?
A. Crash launches on seadromes may be compared with fi'e tenders on
aerodromes. As no other Colonies are served by seadromes, launches have
not been required in Colonies other than St. Vincent and Dominica.
They are also required to keep the seadrome free of obstruction on the
expected arrival of a plane.
It 'has 'been decided that this Government should finance the
maintenance' bf the lai-ich, 'inclltdiig' the salaries of the crew, and that
when not required in connection with the plane service, the launch should
be used for such other purposes as the Administration may decide.
BILLS (continued).
WATER AUTHORITY BILL.
President: I now call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the
second reading of the Water Authority Bill.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I move that a Bill for an Ordinance
shortly entitled the Central Water Distribution Authority Ordinance, 1950, be
read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that this Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House to consider this Bill clause by
clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
'President : With Honourable Members' permission I propose to ask the
Superintendent of Works to attend in order to give us any advice which we find
necessary. Do Honourable Members agree?
Members : Yes.
(Mr. Grant S.P.W. in attendance)
President : May I ask how many members were members of the Water Rates
Committee and have already considered this Bill?
Members: Honourable W. A. Hadley, Honourable O. D. Brisbane; and two
absent members, Honourable S. F. Bonadie, Honourable Treasurer.
Clause 2-Interpretation.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Establishment of Central Authority.
Subsection (2) :
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: It was suggested that we delete the
words General Manager"; I think we might put "with the Secretary" and
leave it at that.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : Would the General Manager .be the Chairman?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: No; somebody would be appointed to
see to the practical working of affairs.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughcs : Probably it would be better to have the
Chairman, for the Chairman's appointment would be Gazetted and the Secretary
may be appointed by the Chairman and the public would not know who it is.
Member for the Grenadines : Would the Chairman be always in the office?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : During the normal working hours.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : May I suggest that you leave out the words "at
the office of the Central Authority? You have to find him if you want the
authority.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Wouldn't that cause more difficulty?
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : The clause says "leaving the same at the office
of the Central Authority with the Chairman "; if he is not there you cannot serve
him. So let it be delivered to the Chairman wherever you find him.
President : Mr. Hughes is suggesting that we delete the words at the office
of the Central Authority."
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I suggest you leave it as it stands:
"with the Chairman or Secretary."
President: "at the office of the Central Authority with the Chairman or
Secretary "; is that agreed?
Members : Agreed.
Subsection (3) :
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: There is a recommendation as to an
amendment made by the Water Rates Committee that the words "officer
administering the Government" be substituted for the words "Government
Secretary in line three of subsection (a).
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : We always use Governor just as we say the
appointment should be by the Governor.
Question that the word "Governor" be substituted for the words
" Government Secretary put and agreed to.
Question that Clause 3 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Central Authority to conform with directions of Governor in Council
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 5-Decisions of the Central Authority.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: There is a lot of worry about this
question of papers being circulated. The Water Rates Committee felt that
Subsection (1) should read "any member who has notified the Chairman of
illness, absence from the Colony or other cause rendering him incapacitated."
President: The onus is on the Member to inform the Chairman.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes: We could leave out the word "interest"
altogether.
President : Is it agreed that we delete the word interest? "
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Did the recommendations include the
word "interest? "
President : Yes; but they suggested that the Member should notify the
Chairman that he is ill or has interest instead of the Chairman himself deciding.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : Why leave out the word interest? "
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : If a paper is circulated to you and you have
interest in the matter you will just abstain.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : Some Members might not abstain.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : If you do not intend to abstain you would not
notify the Chairman. The clause reads or otherwise is, in the opinion of the
Chairman incapacitated from voting on such papers." The Chairman can decide
whether you should vote or not.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : They suggested leaving it to the person.
I do not think it is practical. It would be better to leave it as it stands. Suppose
a matter comes up to the Chairman for circulation. Mr. B. a member cannot say
to him : do not circulate this matter to me, for he has not seen it yet. When he
sees it, it has been circulated already.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : My suggestion is to wipe out the whole proviso.
We all know what the position is. If there are seven members and you get four in
favour you need not worry with the others.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I agree with the Crown Attorney that the word
" interest only be cut out.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes: Subsection (2) says "The quorum of the
Central Authority..................shall be four." If you only get four members in favour
you have your decision.
President : We have two suggestions.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : I suggested both; I beg to withdraw the first
one and suggest that the proviso be deleted.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I suggest that we delete the word
"interest."
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : By the next subsection the Chairman can
decide who is going to vote or not going to vote, and he does not have to assign
any reason why he has not sent a paper to any member.
Superintendent of Works : The reason Mr. Hughes has just given is the
reason why the Water Rates Committee struck out those words and substituted
" any member who has notified the Chairman "; they felt that the Chairman
would be armed with very arbitrary powers and too much would depend on the
person sitting in the Chair.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I did not like it at all.
President : In that case we come back to either the deletion of the proviso or
to the man notifying the Chairman.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Or we do not have any voting on
papers at all.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : We do not want to set up a dictator
Chairman.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : It is necessary to vote by circulation.
President : Either we delete the proviso or we accept the recommendations
of the Water Rates Committee.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I prefer the deletion of the proviso to
the recommendations of the Water Rates Committee, for if the Chairman does
not send the paper to a. member, the member cannot advise him of interest.
Superintendent of Works : I am really just passing on the views of the
Water Rates Committee that deliberated very carefully on the Trinidad Ordinance,
and I think the Committee unanimously voted that the amendment read as
follows : any member who has notified the Chairman of illness, absence from
the Colony or other cause making him incapacitated."
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Do you think it practical?
Superintendent of Works: It may give the Chairman an opportunity of
omission; the other might give him an opportunity of commission.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I cannot uphold the Water Rates
Committee's recommendation. When a matter is such that a member of the
Committee has interest, decision should not be taken by circulation of papers.
There should be a meeting when such an important matter is involved. The
question of putting down a standpipe at a corner could be decided by circulation;
but when a member is involved no Chairman should elect to have the matter
decided by circulation of papers.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I agree with you that decisions should be taken
at meetings as far as possible.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Members could reserve it for discussion.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : If you strike out the proviso would you have to
have a meeting?
Honourable Member for Grenadines : No; that.is provided already.
President : We can delete the proviso or accept the amendment suggested
by the Water Rates Committee. Is it correct that we have decided to delete the
proviso?
Members : Yes.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: There is a suggestion that a quorum
should be made as large as two-thirds of the membership of the Authority instead
of four members as in the Trinidad Ordinance.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : You would never get a meeting.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : One-third?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Do you think it should be changed to three?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: The members are to be not less than
seven; they can be increased from. time to time.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : We want to let people know when they offer to
serve on Committees of this kind they ought to turn up.
Superintendent of Works : The Water Rates Committee thought that with
the growth of local Government when the Central Water Authority would be tied
up with local authorities in districts, it would be necessary to increase the
numbers from time to time, and it was felt that if the quorum were too small it
might vest too much power at the centre and not give the district people enough
opportunity to vote on their affairs.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: If a meeting is summoned and they
wish to stay away, their staying away is the only thing that puts the power in the
hands of the members in Kingstown.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes: The Chairman cannot say 'the four of you
must come.' He has to notify everybody.. If they do not wish to turn up, then
the quorum is four; but it must be a duly summoned meeting.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : If you make the quorum two-thirds a
minority could render every meeting abortive by staying away.
President : On the assumption that we are going to increase membership I
think a proportion would be better.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : One-third is too small.
Honourable E. A. C. Hughes : Not less than a half.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: Make the quorum as small as possible.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane: If you have a Committee of twelve I would
prefer a third.
Question put and agreed to by a, majority of five to two, the division being as
follows :-
For Against
Hon. S. G. De Freitas Hon. E. A. C. Hughes
Hon. E. Duncan Hon. W. A. Hadley
Hon. G. A. McIntosh
Hon. E. Joachim
Hon. O. D. Brisbane
President : The clause would now read "not less than one-third of the
membership of the Authority."
Honourable W. A. Hadley : I do not agree with it.
Question that Clause 5 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 6-Meetings of the Central Authority.
Question put and agreed to with the substitution of the word Governor for
"Government Secretary ".
Clause 7-Consulting Engineers.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 8-Appointment of Officers of the Central Authority.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 9-Maintenance, Operation, etc.
Question put and agreed to.
'Clause 10-Crown Lands may be made available for use of Central Authority.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 11-Acquisition and Disposal of Moveable Property.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 12-Power to place Distribution Mains etc.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 13-Compulsory Acquisition of Way-leaves over Land.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: In subsection 5, line 10, "on the
payment to him of the appropriate fees : I do not think the practice in these
Corporations has been to get fees. May we make it "without payment and
without proof of due execution." I do not know whether the certificate should be
filed free of charge or on payment of the appropriate fees. The Government and
certain Statutory Bodies do not pay.
President: Do you suggest an amendment after 1937 "?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Substitution of the words "without
charge and without proof of due execution for the words on the payment to
him of the appropriate fees." It is signed by the Chairman. The document
itself is in the schedule to the Ordinance. So that is all that matters in that
section.
Question that Clause 13 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 14-Acquisition of Way-leaves by Agreement:
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 16-Polwers of Ceztral Authoiity t6 ente& on Land,
Question put and agreed t.,
62 -
Clause 16-Temporary Rights.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 17-Central Authority to obtain Water.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 18-Acquisition of Water by Central Authority.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 19-Distribution areas.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 20-Supply of Water under Special Agreement.
Question put and agreed.
Clause 21-Public Stand-Pipes.
Question put and agreed.
Clause 22-Supply by Services.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Were no recommendations made by the
Water Rates Committee?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : May I ask Mr. Grant what is the reason why
that was not put in.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Water Rates Committee
recommended a change from $25.00 to $12.00. That was the annual value of
premises below which the general water rates should not apply.
President : If Members agree, I think it might be a suitable time to adjourn.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Committee
rise.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that Council
adjourn until 1.45 this afternoon.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council adjourns until 1.45 p.m. on Monday, 15th May, 1950.
Council Resumes.
At 2.00 p.m. on Monday, 15th May, 1950.
PRESENT
His Honour the Administrator, W. F. COUTTS, M.B.E.-President.
The Honourable D. K. MCINTYRE, Acting Crown Attorney,
S" MCDONALD SMITH, Acting Colonial Treasurer,
S W. A. HADLEY, Nominated Member,
S O. D. BRISBANE, Nominated Member,
S G. A. MCINTOSH, Member for Kingstown,
S E. DUNCAN, Member for North Windward,
E. A. JOACHIM, Member for Leeward,
S" S. G. DEFREITAS, Member for the Grenadines.
ABSENT
The Honourable E. A. C. HUGHES, Nominated Member,
S. F. BONADIE, Member for South Windward.
(Superintendent of Public Works in attendance)
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that this Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to continue its consideration
of the Water Distribution Bill.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
WATER DISTRIBUTION BILL-continued.
Clause 22-Supply by Services (continued).
President : We were discussing the annual taxable value of the premises.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Trinidad section had in the blank
spaces in the text annual taxable value of which is less than $48.00 and "not
less than $48.00." respectively
President : Have you got any recommendations to make about this Mr.
Grant?
Superintendent of Works : I think in the Committee we decided to halve it.
Mr. Brisbane and Mr. Hadley may be able to tell you.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : We worked out a formula about those figures of
the Trinidad section.
Superintendent of Works : We decided to halve it, taking into consideration
the general economic standard of the community.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I can tell you off-hand that in the
Regulations you reduced 60 cents to 50 cents.
Superintendent of Works : But I think in this particular instance it has
been halved.
President : What happened in the case of Section 28(2) ?
Superintendent of Works : That was halved too.
President : Can we accept twenty-four dollars in Section 22?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : The amount was really twenty-four dollars.
President : That is on an occasion where you actually put the pipe into the
person's house?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Yes.
President : Can we agree with that figure?
Members : Yes.
Question that Clause 22 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 23-Installation of Services.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 24-Rates Leviable.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 25-Provisions as to Rates.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 26-Special Charges.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 27-Ascertainment of annual value of premises.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : In 27(2) (c) a typographical error was
corrected which would mean "any excess over $250,000 and not exceeding $500,000,"
but the last figure in the previous line should be $250,000.
Superintendent of Works : That is a subsequent error of the printers.
President : Is it agreed that the figure $150,000 appearing in this subsection
should be $250,000?
Members : Agreed.
The words General Manager of the in line 12, subsection (3) were deleted.
Superintendent of Works : May I mention here that the Treasurer raised
considerable objection to the wording of Section 27(1) but he was outvoted at the
meeting. His contention was that the tax roll as it exists could not furnish the
requisite information. The Water Rates Committee as a whole was of the opinion
that in order to facilitate the implementing of this Bill when it becomes an
Ordinance the tax rolls should be revised in connection with this Ordinance.
President : The tax rolls need revision but when they are revised they
should be revised to come under this Ordinance?
Superintendent of Works : Yes; on an alphabetical basis.
President : That does not really affect the clause as it stands now?
Superintendent of Works : No; but it will affect the operation of it. It will
be very difficult to operate that section without having the tax rolls on an
alphabetical basis.
President: From subsection (3) you would have powers from the Central
Authority to arrive at a taxable assessment. The implementation of the
Ordinance need not await revision of the land and house tax rolls?
Superintendent of Works : No, sir.
Question that Clause 27 as amended stand part of the bill put and agreed to.
Clause 28-Fixing General Water Rates and Water Service Rates.
SHonourable Acting Crown Attorney : It does not state how the public is to
have knowledge of the rates.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Do you think it would be better if a definite rate
were fixed?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I do not suggest any amendment.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : The Kingstown Board has no power to
fix rates.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : That Ordinance says the Board shall
by Regulation fix water rates." In the By-Law it was stated that in November the
Board shall prepare a list of persons receiving water services and shall in
accordance with those lists fix water rates.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : You are not asking for any Regulation to fix
this rate?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : No; it fixes only special charges.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : That question of twelve dollars and twenty-four
dollars, how does that relate?
Honourable Act-:g Crown Attorney : You had twenty-four dollars before.
There was some comment as regards sub-section (4)-" confirmation by the
Governor-in-Council."
Superintendent of Works : It was a point raised by you in the minute paper.
As a result of that comment of yours, at, the meeting of the 24th February the
Committee suggested that the rates should be fixed by the Water Authority and
approved by the Governor-in-Council as is the practice in similar organizations,
and that only the accounts of the Authority should be laid before the Legislative
Council.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : It can have effect until disallowance.
President: Once the Governor in Council has approved it can become
operative until cancelled or affirmed by the Legislative Council at a subsequent
meeting.
Superintendent of Works : You have precedents in legislation for the
Central Housing Authority, the Road Authority, and the Small Towns Boards, a
similar type of section which goes as far as the Governor in Council. The
amendment to Cap. 112, the Small Towns Ordinance, is like that.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : There was a lot of debate over that when we
were fixing it.
President : I read that it is subject to approval by the Governor-in-Council,
which means you can do nothing until the Executive Council has definitely
approved.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : If that was the intention, sir, it would
read "Regulations made under this Ordinance shall have no force or effect until
approved but this reads differently; it is subject to approval by the Governor in
Council and then it comes to the Legislative Council.
President : You would interpret this to mean that once it has been approved
by the Governor-in-Council it will come into effect but it has to be ratified by the
Legislative Council?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Yes.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Members felt it could not be carried out until it
goes to the Legislative Council. If it can operate after the Governor has given
his consent, I will agree to that. The fixing of rates does not prevent the work
going on.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I was wondering whether it should be
stated that such rates, general water rates and water service rates when confirmed
by the Legislative Council should be published in the Gazette.
Superintendent of Works: That would conform with the Small Towns
Ordinance; their rates are published each year in the Gazette.
Question that Clause 28 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 29-Liability of Owners to pay Rates.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 30-Metered Supplies.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 31-Remissions.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 32-Place of payment of Rates and Charges.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 33-Part Payments.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Water Rates Committee
recommended that in sub-section (1) five dollars be amended to two dollars and
fifty cents.
Superintendent of Works : We eventually decided to make it two dollars and
cut out as much of the cents as possible.
Question that Clause 33 stand part of the .ill put and agreed to.
Clause 34-Increase of ten per centum on arrears.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : In the marginal note I would like the
word ten changed to six ".
Question that Clause 34 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 35-Rates, etc.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 36-Advances and Repayment of Advances.
President : Is it the intention that by this clause the Central Authority
should be given a lump sum?
Superintendent of Works : I thought it would operate in a similar manner to
the Central Housing Authority and the detailed accounts be subject to audit. As
far as this year goes the estimates are detailed in the Colonial Estimates.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I would not mix up the laying down of
the pipe lines with this, for the Central Authority would take those over as soon as
they have been put down.
Superintendent of Works : I am speaking of running expenses.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 37-Funds of the Central Authority.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 38-Financial and Accounting Matters.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 39-Audit of Accounts.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 40-Submission of Estimates.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I wonder whether the penultimate line
should read Governor in Council "
President : Under 28(4) power is given to the Governor-in-Council and the
Legislative Council to approve water- rates etc.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Approval of augmented rates should be
given by the same authority as approved the rates in the first instance.
President: Do Members agree to the addition of the words "in Council"
between the words Governor and in the penultimate line of Clause 40?
Members : Agreed.
Question that Clause 40 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 41-Use of Water Supply.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 42-Conservation of Supply, &c.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 43-Stock of pipes and materials.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : An amendment was suggested by the
Treasurer for which I could not see the reason. The Governor-in-Council does not
know much about the system of keeping the stores accounts.
President : The Water Rates Committee recommended the word "Treasurer"
be amended to Governor-in-Council."
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I believe they thought Treasurer"
applied to the first part of the section; I agree that the Governor-in-Council
should decide what stocks etc. should be kept, but I think the Treasurer is the
proper man to deal with the nature of the accounts to be kept.
Superintendent of Works : These were objected to by the Treasurer.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : And he gave a lot of reasons.
Superintendent of Works : Stores and things like that are public funds and
it is the duty of the Treasurer to see to them.
President : I must admit I agree with the Crown Attorney. I do not see how
the Governor-in-Council can deal with this. Shall we leave Treasurer "?
Members : Yes.
Question that Clause 43 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 44-Sale of Stores.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 45-Power to cut off Water.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 46-Offences in relation to services.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: If I read the recommendation aright
the Magistrate can impose a penalty of $14,960.
President: The Committee apparently changed the figure from $5 to $100.
Can you give us the reason for that Mr. Grant? It is very clear here in words and
figures.
Superintendent of Works : The first offence was cut in half; I think the
continued offence should read $1.00.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : It is frequently stated not exceeding......
Honourable Member for Kingstown : The Magistrate has power to lessen
that?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Yes.
Question that Clause 46, amended by the substitution of one dollar for one
hundred dollars, stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 47-Offences in relation to Water supplied by public standpipe.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Water Rates Committee wanted
the words and twenty cents cut out.
President : Is it agreed that the fines in subsection (2) should be fifty
dollars and one hundred dollars respectively?
Members : Agreed.
Question that Clause 47 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 48-Pollution.
The words one hundred and two hundred" were inserted in the blank
spaces respectively.
Question that Clause 48 as completed stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 49-Impeding or interrupting the flow of Water.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 50-Offences relating to meters, gauges, &c.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 51-Injury, &c., to property of the Central Authority.
President : Two hundred dollars has been inserted there; is that approved?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney I agree with that one better than thd
other one, for the imprisonment for one hundred dollars before was three months.
President: I think this is a very serious offence-willfully damaging any
part of the system.
With that amendment may Clause 51 stand part of the Bill?
Members : Agreed.
Clause 52-Abstracting Water from Distribution System.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 53-Offences against Regulations.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Trinidad Ordinance had "should
be liable on summary conviction to a fine of fifty dollars."
Honourable O. D. Brisbane: Then you shouldn't have the six months
imprisonment.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : That is too high; make it twenty-five
dollars or three months.
President: ..................on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding twenty-
five dollars or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding three months." Is
that agreed?
Members : Agreed.
Question that Clause 53 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 54--Application of preceding provisions of this part.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 55-Assault and obstruction of Officers and Servants.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The fine of one hundred dollars is too
high. I think the maximum is twenty-five dollars or six months.
President : Fifty dollars or four months? Normally you cannot be
imprisoned for more than a certain period for a certain figure, e.g. ten shillings or
fourteen days.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I think fifty dollars or four months
would be alright.
Question that Clause 55 be amended by the substitution of the words "fifty
dollars" and "four" for the words "one hundred" and "six" respectively
appearing in the penultimate line was put to the vote and carried by a majority of
four to two, official members abstaining, the division being as follows :-
For Against
Honourable S. G. DeFreitas 'Honourable O. D. Brisbane
E. A. Joachim W. A. Hadley
E. Duncan
A. McIntosh
Cause 56-Compounding of certain offences.
Question that Clause 56 be amended by the substitution of the word twenty-
five for twenty-four in the fifth line put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Water Rates Committee wanted an
amendment which I could not see the reason for :
(2) On payment of such sum of money to the Chairman and on the
issuance of an official receipt therefore no further proceedings in respect of
such minor offence shall be taken against such person."
I do not think that could fit in there. If a man pays money he can demand his
receipt.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : A receipt must be issued.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: "On payment of such money no
further proceeding shall be taken against such person "; he should not have to
produce a receipt.
Superintendent of Works : How can it be proved that he has it?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : If you say the man has to produce a
receipt before further proceedings can be stopped, it is a different thing.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Suppose a man lost his receipt !
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : If you said he must produce his receipt
it means he can be prosecuted again.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : But he ought to get a receipt.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : It is up to the man to ask for his
receipt.
Honourable W. A. Hadley: It may not be paid to the Chairman himself.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I think we can leave it as it is.
Superintendent of Works : The point is the -Chairman might not be present
at the transaction.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : But it must be paid to the Chairman
for it is a matter of compounding a felony.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : His Office cannot accept it?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Not in this case; if they did that they
could be prosecuted.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane: If the man does not have the money at the
moment and when he comes back the Chairman is not there and that money is
left at the office of the Chairman, what would happen?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I would take that clerk to the Court.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : That m'an may never see the Chairman. It
could be paid into the office and a receipt given.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : It is not to be paid to the office at all;
that would be highly dangerous. The power to compound rests with the Chairman
alone, not his clerk.
President : That brings us back to subsection (2) of putting in the official
receipt.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : On receipt of such sum as
compensation the Chairman would issue a receipt.
President: What is the feeling of the Council on this matter? Is it that
you wish a definite receipt to be issued by the Chairman?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Yes; I would like some proof of payment.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Does that make it compulsory for the
man to produce this receipt in Court?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : He can say he has paid, but he may not
be believed unless he shows the receipt.
President : Is it agreed that we want a receipt issued and we leave it to the
Crown Attorney to redraft it in order to make provision for a receipt to be issued?
Members: Agreed.
70
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Redrafted Subsection (2) to read as
follows On payment of such sum of money to the Chairman, the Chairman shall
issue an official receipt therefore, and no further proceedings in respect of such
minor offence shall be taken against such person."
Question that Clause 56 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 57-Appropriation of Fines.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 58-Power to prosecute.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 59-Regulations.
Question put and agreed to.
First Schedule.
Question put and agreed to.
Second Schedule.
President : There was an addition to Regulation 2 of the Second Schedule.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Yes; I think we can add a subsection
(d) : all school buildings approved by the Governor-in-Council."
Question that Regulation 2 as amended stand part of the Schedule put and
agreed to.
Regulation 3 :
The word "two" was inserted between the words of" and dollars in the
sixth line.
President : This is a section exempting churches or places of worship; the
original section said that if you only had one tap you were charged two dollars
a year, but if you had more than one tap you should be metered. The Water
Rates Committee recommended that one dollar per annum for each additional
tap be charged.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : How would that differ from a public
standpipe?
Superintendent of Works : The idea was that in the initial stages we would
not have the meters to put in.
President : It would be so much a tap until we got meters and then we
would have to alter these Regulations?
Superintendent of Works : Yes, sir.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Every house would be metered so it does not
make any difference.
President : Do you want to leave the word meter or to charge a dollar for
each tap?
Superintendent of Works : I do not know if the Crown Attorney could put
in until such tim e.................."
Honourable Member for Kingstown : A half inch service will only carry a
half inch supply.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : It depends on what taps you have.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : The pressure is what you have in the
mains; everybody will get that.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : If you have low pressure additional
taps will not help, but if you have high pressure you can have several taps.
President: Do we accept the charge of two dollars for each tap?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : For the supply? I would not. say first,
second, or third tap.
President : The section reads, not more than one tap.................."
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I am going to challenge this and
Regulation 4; I do not like this tap system at all.
President : What is the feeling as regards Regulation 3?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Two dollars for the first tap.
President : The suggestion is that for the moment we charge one dollar for
each tap until we can get a meter and then it will be metered.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I do not agree with that, sir. If you
are going to meter, meter everybody; but if you are going to take the size of the
pipe, if a man is supplied with a half inch service he gets a half inch supply and
that is all. We are only copying that because it is in the Trinidad Ordinance.
Honourable 0. D. Brisbane : St. Vincent should always set the pace, but the
point is not to charge a large sum but to charge a small amount for each tap and
charge an amount for one tap. Some people might want a tap in each room.
Honourable Member for Grenadines: If you have a half inch supply of
water and you put ten taps you cannot get the water until you close some of the
taps. You are going to charge the people for putting a tap instead of using a
bucket.
Honourable MemDer for Kingstown : The taos make no difference.
Superintendent of Works : Suppose you lead in a 3/4 inch tube?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : You charge for whatever you tap the
main with. We do not tap with a % inch tube and give you a half inch supply
and charge for a half inch.
President : The point is we have now got this Regulation 3 as regards
churches, etc., and apparently they are likely to have taps.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I think the supply to the premises is
all we have to consider.
President : Mr. McIntosh says he does not think that we should charge for
taps at all. Do you think they should be metered?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Either metered or as we do now in
regard to the size of the pipes.
Are you going to change up the whole system in Kingstown?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: This is for the outside areas, the
Kingstown Board has its own rates.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: You are going to have a different
system.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : For Kingstown?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Are you going to be more oppressive?
It is oppressive. I am not getting any more water because I have six taps and
you are going to charge me more.
Honourable W. A. Hadley: If you have a low pressure you do not get any
water.
Honourable Member,for Kingstown : A man might have a big tap and use no
more water than the man with a small tap who might have a number of children
bathing all the time; he uses more water and pays less because he puts in less
taps.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : You have to use your common sense to
see which way you are going to get cheaper water.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : If it is a half-inch pipe you will get a
half inch supply. It depends on how much' you use.
Superintendent of Works: Mr. McIntosh forgets that if a man puts in
twenty taps a different leading-in pipe will be put to feed those taps. If a man
has a hotel and fifty half-inch taps you can't give him a half-inch supply.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Yes; if he wants it so, you should not
charge hiii more just for the convenience. He cannot get full pressure from the
one downstairs when he is using the one upstairs and vice versa.
President : I would like to get Regulation 3 cleared up; we are row dealing
with 4.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : My idea is to exempt them from the
general rate and charge them the same rate for a private service as you charge
anybody else.
President : The idea is to give it to them cheaper, but this would be dearer.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: In this case they would be exempt
from the general rate, but they are not bound to have the private service.
Honourable Member for North Windward: Is it suggested that they get
special treatment?
Honourable W. A. Hadley: Yes.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : No special treatment at all.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: They are exempt from the general
water' rate; they do not pay the service rate; all they pay is two dollars a year and
you say they do not get special treatment.
President : Do not tell me any of you will pay less than two dollars a year.
The" suggestion is that if it is a church two- dollars a year is charged for one tap.
If that is not a concession I do net know what it is.
Honourable Member for.Kingstown : It is the tap system that I am objecting
to altogether. If you are going to give the church special concession give them
special concession for the water and not the taps. If you feel they should pay
two do'atrs, let them pay two dollars whether they have one' or two taps.
President : Under Regulation 6- you have all the rules regarding meters. If
they want a meter let them get it.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : If you are metering let everybody get
meters. What I am saying. is, that the system of charging by taps is not fair.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : it is fair, you can have a meter if you
are' not satisfied to' pay per tap ".
President: If you want a meter you can come under Regulation 6.
H~Iiourable. Acting Grown- Attornrey : I move that the amendment suggested
by the Water Rates Committee be adopted: That the word "metered" be
deleted and the words charged one dollar per annum for each additional tap be
added at the end.
Honourable Member for Grenadines : I think that is the best.
Hdflourable W. A. Hadley : Or have a meter.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: Even if you have one tap' ha it
metered.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : That would cost too much; let us say two dollars.
President : Shall we leave it as it was in -the first place?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I object to that.
President : We are trying to get a concession.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : More taps won't give them more water.
Honourable W. A. Hadley: You can have more water if you have the
pressure.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Everybody will have the same pressure.
Honourable W. A. Hadley: With the pressure behind it you can get more
water.
President: The Acting Crown Attorney has moved -that this shall be one
dollar per annum for each additional tap.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : .I beg to second the motion.
The motion was carried by a majority of seven to one, the division being as
follows :-
For Against
Honourable Crown Attorney (Ag.) Honourable G. A. McIntosh
Honourable Treasurer (Ag.)
Honourable W. A. Hadley'
E. Duncan
S..G. DeFreitas
D. Brisbane
E. A. Joachim
Question that Regulation 3 as amended stand part of the Schedule put and
agreed to, Honourable G. A. McIntosh voting against the motion.
Regulation 4 :
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : You are making provision for houses to get so
many taps. A small house with a small value should not be given three taps or
more.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: These pipes would be one-inch, two-
inch, or half-inch pipes?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : It depends on the number of taps in
the house.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Where is that?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : That is how the official water system
is laid down.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : It must be laid down here for us to
know about that.
President : Here is your house; here is the main. If you are going to put
fifteen taps you take off from the main a sufficiently large pipe to supply the
number of taps you want in the house.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : He might have just a small use for
water, but he wants the convenience of having a tap upstairs.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I do not want a big leading pipe; I
want a half-inch pipe; therefore I put my meter. I only use these taps
occasionally so I want to pay for the water I use.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : What is the rate for the meter?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Thirty cents per thousand gallons.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Is it possible for the man with one tapl
to use in his bath ten times as much as the man with the meter?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: The supply can be metered when we
think the water is being wasted.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: Is this system going to call for all
services to be metered?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Eventually.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I do not know that it is necessary.
President: Are we agreed on the rates? (a) Fifty cents per annum?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Normal requirements means
requirements for premises whose annual value exceeds one hundred dollars.
Ninety-six dollars in subsection (ii) should be changed to one hundred dollars.
These are normal requirements; you have to pay fifty cents for every tap in
addition to normal requirements.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: You cannot put three taps in a small
house. A small man who can't have a big house cannot have three taps for his
convenience?
President : We are npt considering Kingstown : In the majority of cases
there are going to be standpipes.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: They would not have water in their
houses?
President : There is no reason why they should not.
Honourable 0. D. Brisbane : The man in the large house pays more general
rate.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : As long as he is satisfied with what
that half inch pipe can give him why deprive him of that privilege?
President: He asks for the service and stipulates what service he wants.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : He asks for a half-inch; he is satisfied
to pay for that half inch and satisfied to take what that will give him. Another
man says, I want more, put in a one-inch service." That man with the half inch
service must not get three taps if he wants?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The times when we had no meters and
water supplied was judged by the inch or half-inch pipe have been buried; but
they still seem to rule us from the grave."
Honourable Member for Kingstown : We do not know that they are buried.
President: These are additional charges; if any of these people want more
than the number of taps stipulated, it would cost them fifty cents for each tap.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : What is the amount paid?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : That depends on the rate fixed under
Section 30, subsection (1). You pay that flat rate; these are additional charges.
If you have a house valued over three hundred dollars you get three taps; if you
want an additional tap you pay fifty cents a year for each additional tap.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Plus the private rate, plus the general
rate.
President : Plus your water service rate.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : You have two water service rates.
President : Is this additional?
Superintendent of Works : Yes. In subsection (c) the Trinidad rate is four
dollars and eighty cents, and we reduced it to two dollars for St. Vincent in
respect of each water closet or urinal.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Are you going to put in a bigger pipe
when you add all these? Are you going to have a four-inch pipe or are you going
to keep the small pipe?
S'775
Honourable Member for Grenadines: That will be additional to the service
you have; that does not go on for twenty-four hours.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Does that affect the service?
Superintendent of Works: No.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : So the idea you gave of a different size
pipe for the service is not right?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : If you want to have your fifty taps nobody
objects to that.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : But you are going to charge me for
each tap I put on.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane: I object to the extra charge for a shower
(subsection (d) ).
President : It is a necessity, not a luxury.
Superintendent of Works : The Trinidad figure is sixty cents for a shower.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Trinidad has no water; we have plenty
of water here; we do not want to follow Trinidad in that.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : That can come off.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Nothing comes off once it goes on.
President : It is a question whether in fact the total is a reasonable levy on
the people using the water or not.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Look at the bath and look at the
charges. You do not think these baths would use more water than a shower? I
think these charges too low.
Superintendent of Works : I would like to see the filling of the baths cut out
altogether.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: I agree with that.
President : No shower?
Superintendent of Works : Just leave the shower and say that the filling of
baths is not allowed.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : You would have to eliminate those baths.
Superintendent of Works : Eliminate those exceeding one hundred gallons.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Yes. I objected to this question of paying extra
for a shower. If you have three taps in your house, why can't you make one a
shower?
Honourable Member for Grenadines: It is fifty cents for each tap; the
shower is an extra tap.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Why mention the shower at all?
President : Mr. Brisbane raises a point that we should not have any showers.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Not should not have any showers but what
about having a tap. What is the difference between a shower and the taps
overhead when you bathe under the water coming down. Suppose somebody
knocks it off and you are paying for a shower !
President: Mr. Brisbane is moving that we have no charge for a shower.
Superintendent of Works: That means that a shower can be classed as a
tap.
President : Do you want to delete (ii), (iii), and (iv) ?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Is that right with the big supply we
have? You are asking a man not to use it? We should insist that all premises be
metered and charge so much for the water.
President: But we cannot meter in advance. In the meanwhile can we
accept this principle.
Honourable 0. D. Brisbane : How much would a house with three taps pay?
Mr. Grant can you tell us?
Superintendent of Works : No; because you have not fixed your .sates yr t.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: Water rates will be fixed on what
basis?
Superintendent of Works : On the annual value of the property. On the
same basis that the Kingstown rates are fixed now.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Therefore you see my contention is
right. You go on piling up more for additional taps.
Superintendent of Works : It is sixty Cents per annum.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : For extras?
Honourable Member for Grenadines : Yes; that is cheap when you get the
service you are getting now.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: These are Regulations to be fixed by
the Central Authority; they can put up S. R. & O's altering the present rates if
they wish.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Should not all these be left out until
the Ordinance is passed?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Well, that is a matter for you. When
the Central Authority passes them you scrutinize them.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : We come here to sanction.
President : I would like to point out to Mr. McIntosh that there is now a line
going down at Cane Garden on which we have not collected any rates at all. We
have $9,000 to pay off each year of which the Kingstown Board is finding five-
ninths. The sooner we get this fixed so that the people who should be paying for
it pay, the better. These rates will only become effective as soon as the Water
Authority can get them fixed.
Hcnourable iMmber for Kingstown : As soon as you pass this Ordinance you
say each house shall pay so much.
H-onourabie Acting Crown Attorney : The water rates are to be levied by
by-laws and for the present their place will be taken by the schedule to this
Ordinance.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : The only difference I see is that the
Kingstown Board has not got all this paraphernalia; they have one thing that
anybody can understand.
President : Mr. McIntosh, we are legislating. Can we say that the
Kingstown Board is a perfect model?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : In my opinion it is.
President : Is that the general feeling of the meeting?
Reply in the negative.
President : As far as hardship is concerned, what we are considering now
refers to people who are asking for it. There is a general water rate. Those
people who do not want an individual water supply can go to a standpipe. These
things we are considering now are the things that people are asking for. These
pipes are in excess of the normal requirements, call it luxury or what you will;
these are extras.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I do not see any extras.
President : Concerning subsection (e), are we agreed that the baths should
be cut out or not?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : No; we have plenty of water.
Honourable 0. D. Brisbane : Not exceeding 100 gallons.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : You have an abundant supply; you do
not want the money?
Superintendent of Works : The people of Kingstown at the present moment
are getting a super-abundance; but when we connect five other sections of the
community to that main line, the people of Kingstown will not get that super-
abundance they are getting now. We are using the Montrose reservoir as an
overflow for the system; but when the district lines are put to supply a population
equal to the population of Kingstown, Kingstown will be getting less water. You
are not going to get the super-abundance of water running to waste as at present.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I think this bath should be cut out. It comes
under the same as the shower; and all these "not exceeding 300 gallons or 600
gallons should be cut out.
President : Is it agreed that subsections (d) and (e) should be removed?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I do not think they should be removed
until we see what is going to be put up. In respect of each bath filled by means of
a tap connected to the distribution system-the water should be measured to the
level of the over-flow; you would have to say not exceeding so many gallons
measured to the level of the over-flow.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: A person can fill his bath ten times a
day.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Then we meter him.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : The ordinary baths will be free.
President : We have agreed that we are aiming at metering. At the moment
we are concerned with the question of revenue. It is for us to decide in the
meanwhile, are we going to accept these rates until meters come, or not?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I say accept them; for if we are aiming
at revenue let us get the revenue.
Honourable Member for Grenadines : Until we get the meters let us not have
any baths over 100 gallons.
President : Mr. DeFreitas suggests that until the meters come there should
be no baths over 100 gallons; is that agreed?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I second the motion.
President: It has been moved by Mr. DeFreitas and seconded by Mr.
Brisbane that we do not have any baths over 100 gallons; those in favour please
signify.
The motion was lost by a majority of four to two, official members abstaining,
the division being as follows :-
For Against
Honourable S. G. DeFreitas Honourable E. A. Joachim
O. D. Brisbane E. Duncan
G. A. McIntosh
W. A. Hadley
President: Subsection (e) now becomes (d) -the showers being classed as
taps and the original (d) omitted.
Question that Regulation 4 as amended stand part of the Schedule put and
agreed to.
Regulation 5.
President : It is suggested that the words of each year at the end of the
fourth line should go in after the word December in the third line.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : That is not really necessary because
the section states annual charges ", which is the same thing.
Question that Regulation as amended stand part of the Schedule put and
agreed to.
78
(The Honourable S. G. DeFreitas asked to be excused from further attendance
and left the meeting.)
Regulation 6-Metered Supplies.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: This is only a trial until we get the
thing going; it is only with experience that we can see. It was forty cents in
Trinidad; we have inserted thirty cents here (subsection A(i) ).
Honourable W. A. Hadley : As we have cut by 50% all the way this should be
twenty.
President : Agreed.
Subsection A (a).
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : What is the average consumption?
Superintendent of Works : Forty gallons per head per day.
President: Ten thousand gallons are free; then the cost is so much per
thousand above that. Is 8,000 gallons instead of 16,000 gallons agreed?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Thirty cents is now twenty cents.
Subsections A(i) and A(i) (a) agreed to as amended.
President : Are you metering the standpipes?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : No, sir; except you have a yard where
tenants get water from a common tap.
Subsections (a), (b) and (c) agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Thirty cents should be reduced to
twenty.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : It is sixty cents in Trinidad.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : If we make it 50% factories should pay more;
thirty cents should be alright.
President: Subsections A(i), (ii), (iii), and (iv) : 20 cents; A(v) : 30
cents; subsection B : 30 cents : Are those agreed?
Members : Agreed.
Question that Regulation 6 as amended stand part of the schedule put and agreed
to.
Regulations 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 agreed to.
Regulation 12.
President : Do you agree with the three dollars?
Honourable O.D. Brisbane : What about two dollars and fifty cents?
Honourable Member for North Windward: Two dollars.
Question that Regulation 12 as amended to two dollars stand part of the
Schedule put and agreed to.
President : No charge is to be made for the meter? How do you replace?
Honourable Member for Kingstown : If you are going to measure you
cannot charge the person for measuring it.
President : I agree with that.
Regulations 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18 agreed to.
Regulation 19.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Water Rates Committee
recommended the 30th April; why?
Superintendent of Works : That was done to fit in with taxation.
Question that Regulation 19 stand part of the Schedule put and agreed to.
Regulations 20 and 21 agreed to.
Regulation 22 :
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : An amendment was made to that; the
Treasurer wanted Governor-in-Council."
Question that Regulation 22 as amended stand part of the Schedule put and
agreed to.
Regulations 23 to 34 agreed to.
Regulation 35 amended by the substitution of the word Governor for the words
" Government Secretary in the third line thereof agreed to.
Regulation 36 agreed to.
Question that the Second Schedule as amended stand part of the Bill put and
agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
President : Before we go back into Council do members want to go on? I
do not propose to have a meeting tomorrow morning.
Honourable 0. D. Brisbane : Until 5 o'clock.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Committee
rise, Council resume and the President report to the House.
Honourable Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President : I beg to report that the Bill for an Ordinance to provide for the
setting up of a Central Water Distribution Authority and for other matters
connected -therewith passed through the Committee stage with certain
amendments to certain sections.
Honourable Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the President's report be
adopted.
Honourable Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Central Water Distribution Authority Ordinance,
1950, be read a third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
(The Superintendent of Works excused from further attendance.)
BoY SCOUTS ASSOCIATION BILL.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of the Boy Scouts Association" Bill.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I move that a Bill for an Ordinance
shortly entitled the Boy Scouts Association Ordinance, 1950, be read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that this Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider this Bill clause by
clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
S In Committee.
Clause 2-Interpretation.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Restriction on use of uniform, etc. of Bey Scouts Association.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Personation by Boy Scout of person employed in the Public Service.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 5-No person falsely to claim connection with Boy Scouts Association.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 6-Penalties.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : I am suggesting you make it twenty-
five dollars.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I wonder why this law popped up at all.
President : Are we leaving it at fifty dollars or twenty-five dollars?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I suggest twenty-five dollars or one month.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The whole object of this is to prevent
people using uniforms to which they are not entitled. I think it is ridiculous to
put one month.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : Leave three months.
President : It is suggested that we put twenty-five dollars or three months."
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : You may not have to use it.
President : When you are legislating you must expect you may have to use it.
Question that the word three be amended to one put to the vote and
agreed to, Honourable W. A. Hadley voting against it.
Question that Clause 6 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Preamble.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise,
Council resume, and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President: I beg to report that a Bill for an Ordinance to further and
protect the activities and interests of the Boy Scouts Association in the Colony has
passed through the Committee stage with the following amendments-Clause 6-
The word "fifty" deleted and the word "twenty-five" substituted; the word
"three in the final line of that section deleted and the word one substituted.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Boy Scouts Association Ordinance, 1950, be read a
third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
POLItE AMENDMENT BILL.
President: I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the
introduction of the Police Amendment Bill.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Police (Amendment) Ordinance 1950 be read a
second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by
clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Section 10 of Principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Section 59(1) of Principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Penalty on persons causing disaffection &c.
President : Is the definition laid down in the Ordinance.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Could it be stretched to mean anything?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: What amounts to disaffection has in
the past received judicial interpretation.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : Do you mean induce the Police to go on strike?
President : I think we should explain that this is a matter which was put to
us by the Secretary of State about six or seven months ago.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Much longer than that sir.
President : The Secretary of State raised a question as to whether there was
legislation in these Colonies which provided for taking action against anyone who
willfully upset the Police Force.
Honourable Acting @rown Attorney: This arose out of an act passed in
England since the war.
Honourable Member for Kingstown : Are the Police allowed to join the
Trade Union?
President: I do not know.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : No.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: From my experience I have to be very
careful what these things are.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Committee
rise, Council resume, and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President : I beg to report that an Ordinance to amend the Police Ordinance,
1947, has passed through the Committee stage without amendmeMt.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Orown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Bill for an
Ordinance to further amend the Police Ordinance, 1947, be read a third time and
passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
MAINTENANCE AMENDMENT BILL.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of a Bill for an Ordinance to amend the Maintenance Ordinance, 1949.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Maintenance (Amendment) Ordinance, 1950, be
read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg leave to move that this Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by
clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Amendment of Section 9(3) of Principal Ordinance.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: This was recommended by the
Secretary of State.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Amendment of heading to Part III of Principal Ordinance.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : This is to correct a typographical error.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Amendment of Section 19 of Principal Ordinance.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : This amendment was suggested by the
Chief Justice.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 5-Rules and Forms.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The Chief Justice should make Rules
under the Ordinance; he submitted forms which appear in the Schedule and said
"these forms shall take effect until otherwise provided." They form a part of the
Ordinance instead of being individual Regulations.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 6-Addition of Schedule.
Question put and agreed to.
Schedule.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : The last line of Form G should be
amended to read Made before me ".
Question that the Schedule as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed
to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Quesion put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise,
Council resume, and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President: I beg to report that a Bill for an Ordinance to amend the
Maintenance Ordinance, 1949, passed through the Committee stage with one
amendment, a typographical error in Form G of the Schedule-the word "the"
deleted and the word me substituted.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg to move that the President's
Report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Bill for
an Ordinance shortly entitled the Maintenance (Amendment) Ordinance, 1950, be
read a third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
BRITISH NATIONALITY ACT (OFFENCES, PENALTIES AND FEES) BILL.
President: I now call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the
second reading of a Bill for an Ordinance shortly entitled the British Nationality
Act (Offences, Penalties and Fees) Ordinance, 1950,
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the British Nationality Act (Offences, Penalties and
Fees) Ordinance, 1950, be read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put. and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Council resolve
itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Interpretation.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Offences and Penalties.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Regulations with respect to Fees, etc.
Question put and agreed to.
Appendix.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : This tends to create retrospective
penalties, and as far as my recollection goes the Secretary of State is very much
against that. I think the Words and shall be deemed to have come into forbe on
the ist day of January, 1949 could be left out. We can put by piociamdtioi
in the Gazette or leave it as it is.
84 .-'"
President: I think that is the easiest thing.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: The words and commencement" in
the marginal note should be deleted.
Question that Clause 1 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise,
Council resume and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President : I beg to report that the British Nationality Act (Offences,
Penalties and fees) Bill has passed through Committee with the following
amendment to Clause 1 : deletion of the words "and shall be deemed to have
come into force on the 1st day of January, 1949 and in the marginal note the
words and commencement."
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Bill be read a
third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
PUrLIC HEALTH (AMENDMENT) BILL.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of the Public Health (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Bill for an
Ordinance to amend the Public Health Ordinance, 1927, be read a second time.
Honourable Acting Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Council resolve
itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Power to make Regulations.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: This was fully debated in Executive
Council. It is to make people apply to the Sanitary Authority when they wish to
rebuild or repair; but in the case of repairs it would only be necessary to apply
whei repairs exceed one hundred dollars.
Honourable Member for North Windward : There is a typographical error in
the word storey in line 4 of subsection (c).
Question that Clause 2 as amended stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Insertion of New Sections.
Question put and agreed to,
Clause 4-Application. : : -
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise,
Council resume and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President : I beg to report that the Public Health (Amendment) Bill passed
through Committee with one minor amendment of a typographical error in
subsection (c) of Section 2-the spelling of the word storey ".
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Bill be read a
third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
TICKET DUTY AMENDMENT BILL.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of a Bill for an Ordinance to amend the Ticket Duty Ordinance, 1947.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Ticket Duty (Amendment) Ordinance, 1950, be
read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Council resolve
itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Section 5(1) of Principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I have to ask that this should be made a little
longer than one day. I questioned it when it first came up in Executive Council.
If we make it a law that these returns are put in the day after the boat sails it puts
too much on the agent. The agent might be rushed. Two or three days are
given to clear goods from the warehouse and two' or three days to put in the
returns. We said thirty days were too long and you want to bring it down to a
reasonable time; make it three days.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : The sooner they are done the better.
They have so many delays. I prefer to have it done as early as possible.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : I say make it three days.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : Isn't it checked before the ship leaves?
S86
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : We know that, but a return has to be made. If
it was the same passenger sheet it would not make any difference, but you have to
make out separate forms.
President : We had this in Executive Council and it is now a question for the
Legislative Council to decide what they feel about it. The feeling in Executive
Council was against Mr. Brisbane to the effect that if the passenger list is made
up there is no reason why it cannot be sent in in the morning. I think I am right
in saying that, am I?
Honourable W. A. Hadley: Yes, sir.
Honourable Member for North Windward : What is the position when there
is no agent and the captain has to do it before he goes out?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : If no proper person is left behind the captain
has to stay and clear.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : In the case where there is no agent the Captain
makes the statement before he leaves the port?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : Yes.
Honourable Member for Leeward : I agree with Mr. Brisbane; if it does not
put the Treasurer out, extend it for three days.
Honourable W. A. Hadley : I do not wish to impose any hardship. I do not
know enough about it to decide if it is a hardship or not.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: It is no more of a hardship than
clearing a ship is.
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : You have two or three days in which to clear
your ship. If you have to send in the return next morning you may be short-
staffed and it would be a hardship. Recently we were seeing to the .shipping of
bananas and it took two days for the Customs to give us back the papers. It is
not a matter of begging for time or stealing time. The Government says thirty
days time is too long, bring it down; you say one day.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : There is no -need for grace except to
humbug the Customs. If we say three days, you can say you forgot; if you do it
the same time, there is no difficulty, it.wont be forgotten.
Question of amendment put to the vote and lost by a majority of five to two,
the division being as follows :-
For Against
Honourable E. A. Joachim Honourable E. Duncan
D. Brisbane G. A. McIntosh
W. A. Hadley
S" Ag. Colonial Treasurer
Ag. Crown Attorney
Question that Clause 2 stand part of the Bill put and agreed to.
Clause 3--Commencement.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Committee
rise, Council resume, and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President : I beg to report that the Ticket Duty (Amendment) Bill passed
through Committee stage without amendment.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Bill be read a
third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
VILLAGE COUNCILS (AMENDMENT) BILL.
President : I now call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the
second reading of the Village Councils (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Village Councils (Amendment) Ordinance, 1950, be
read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg leave to move that the Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by
clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Section 21 of Principal Ordinance amended.
President: That is to remove an ambiguity?
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: Yes, sir. It was recommended by the
Secretary of State.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Section 27 of Principal Ordinance amended.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that the Committee rise,
Council resume, and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President: I beg to report that the Village Councils (Amendment) Bill
passed through the Committee stage without amendment.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney: I beg leave to move that the Bill be
read a third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
TowNs BOUNDARIES (AMENDMENT) BILL.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
reading of the Towns Boundaries (Amendment) Bill.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that a Bill for an
Ordinance shortly entitled the Towns Boundaries (Amendment) Ordinance, 1950,
be read a second time.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a second time.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Council
resolve itself into a Committee of the whole Council to consider the Bill clause by
clause.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
In Committee.
Clause 2-Amendment of Sections 6 and 12(2) of Principal Ordinance.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 3-Amendment of Section 8 of Principal Ordinance.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 4-Section 10(2) of Principal Ordinance repealed and replaced.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 1-Short Title and Enacting Clause.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Committee
rise, Council resume, and the President report to the House.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council Resumes.
President: I beg to report that the Town Boundaries (Amendment) Bill
passed through the Committee stage without amendment.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the President's
report be adopted.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that the Bill be:
read a third time and passed.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill read a third time and passed.
Honourable Member for Kingstown: I do not want to rush the motion and
at this stage I ask permission to postpone the discussion of my motion.
President : Is it the feeling of Council that we postpone the motions until
the next meeting or return tomorrow?
Honourable O. D. Brisbane : If you are having a meeting tomorrow I would
like to be excused.
President : I call upon the Honourable Crown Attorney to move the second
and third motions standing in his name.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that this Council
approve the Order cited as the Department of Labour (Agricultural Workers)
(Amendment) Order, 1950, made by the Governor in Council ia lcr section 5'1) of
the Department of Labour Ordinance, 1942 (No. 14 of 1942), on the 31st lay of
March, 1950.
The object of this order is to increase the minimum wage of agricultural
workers and to impose a piece rate for the reaping of arrowroot.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg leave to move that this Council
approve the Regulations shortly entitled the St. Vincent Grammar School
(Amendment) Regulations, 1950, made by the Governor in Council on the 25th
April, 1950, under section 29 of the Education Ordinance, 1937 (No. 29 of 1937).
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Honourable Acting Crown Attorney : I beg to move that this Council adjourn
sine die.
Honourable Acting Colonial Treasurer : I beg to second the motion.
Question put and agreed to.
Council adjourns sine die at 5.30 p.m. .
HENRY H. WILLIAMS,
Acting Cleric of Couneil.
Confirmed 1st February, 1951.
W. F. COUTTS,
Administrator.
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